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[109.224.244.16]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d75a77b69052e-4abb4aa6b43si1003441cf.4.2025.07.20.08.19.31 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 20 Jul 2025 08:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of conduition@proton.me designates 109.224.244.16 as permitted sender) client-ip=109.224.244.16; Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2025 15:19:25 +0000 To: Ethan Heilman From: "'conduition' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Human meaningful witness versioning Message-ID: <-k1KNMwmXrdmMxpxMeJHAOYuKpMfeUpx7rqfIkta_NC6f7MtzlOYEdXbAhi-SztejTidNysh40ask8j9JNrzxoh1sUCH4F9tKV6tarkrWrc=@proton.me> In-Reply-To: References: Feedback-ID: 72003692:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: e777b55d75d766bc72722c8079e46235d3d7f6b5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512; boundary="------da1151fd23e188c539cb1eb0ec2ef202336943e7d899b2bd6ce800a169a53921"; charset=utf-8 X-Original-Sender: conduition@proton.me X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@proton.me header.s=protonmail header.b=MBCMLqtb; spf=pass (google.com: domain of conduition@proton.me designates 109.224.244.16 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=conduition@proton.me; dmarc=pass (p=QUARANTINE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=proton.me X-Original-From: conduition Reply-To: conduition Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------da1151fd23e188c539cb1eb0ec2ef202336943e7d899b2bd6ce800a169a53921 Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary=---------------------d29079b9f9a13d866cf6ef106234de0f -----------------------d29079b9f9a13d866cf6ef106234de0f Content-Type: multipart/alternative;boundary=---------------------7bb2f6552ec4286e7fd38f719779ce03 -----------------------7bb2f6552ec4286e7fd38f719779ce03 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Ethan, I appreciate your intent behind making things easier for humans to understa= nd, but I don't think it matters enough to break from the existing pattern = of version incrementation. It's also a bit too late, given that quantum-vul= nerable address types P2WKH and P2WSH already took the `bc1q` prefix. More important will be other small minutiae like naming the output type (P2= QRH? or P2TSH? or P2TTH? etc), and practical necessities like fully-defined= post-quantum signature verification opcodes. regards, conduition On Friday, July 18th, 2025 at 6:00 PM, Ethan Heilman wro= te: > I want to propose a new criteria for allocating Witness versions based on= human meaningfulness and see if there is support for this approach or if t= he community is highly allergic to this idea. >=20 >=20 > Bech32 (BIP-0173) was designed such that the Witness version is the first= character in an address after the =E2=80=9Cbc1=E2=80=9D address prefix >=20 >=20 > Witness Version 0: bc1q=E2=80=A6 > Witness Version 1: bc1p=E2=80=A6 >=20 > Witness version 2: bc1z=E2=80=A6 >=20 > Witness version 3: bc1r=E2=80=A6 >=20 > Witness version 4: bc1y=E2=80=A6 > Witness version 5: bc19=E2=80=A6 >=20 > Witness version 6: bc1x=E2=80=A6 >=20 > Witness version 7: bc18=E2=80=A6 >=20 > Witness version 8: bc1g=E2=80=A6 >=20 > =E2=80=A6 >=20 >=20 >=20 > So far we have been allocating Witness Versions in incrementing numeric o= rder (0,1,...). I want to suggest we allocate Witness Versions mnemonic to = make it easier to look at an address and determine the output type. >=20 >=20 >=20 > This originally came up over the question of if BIP-360 should use Witnes= s Version 3 to get bc1r=E2=80=A6 for P2QRH (r for resistant) or the next nu= merically available 2, but I want to see how the community feels about it a= s a general pattern for future softforks (z for compressed/zipped output, y= for yield outputs, etc=E2=80=A6). >=20 >=20 >=20 > Making it easier for users to understand the output type associated is li= kely to grow in importance over time as we retire output types, add policy = restricting the relay of certain output types or output types become insecu= re due to cryptanalytic breaks. While wallet software should flag dangerous= output types, some wallets may not invest in such functionality or the use= r may be using a paper wallet. This is the same argument as prefixing addre= sses with =E2=80=9Cbc=E2=80=9D for mainnet and =E2=80=9Ctc=E2=80=9D for tes= tnet. >=20 >=20 > Note: the Witness version is sometimes called the SegWit version. >=20 > Thanks, > Ethan >=20 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoinde= v/CAEM%3Dy%2BWkLOVJ787jjr5zZgKsAHxHkgdZjANqGycEh4K7ZSddSA%40mail.gmail.com. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= -k1KNMwmXrdmMxpxMeJHAOYuKpMfeUpx7rqfIkta_NC6f7MtzlOYEdXbAhi-SztejTidNysh40a= sk8j9JNrzxoh1sUCH4F9tKV6tarkrWrc%3D%40proton.me. -----------------------7bb2f6552ec4286e7fd38f719779ce03 Content-Type: multipart/related;boundary=---------------------c9e0c0a3bffe047ce6c35a912c48e10f -----------------------c9e0c0a3bffe047ce6c35a912c48e10f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ethan,

I apprec= iate your intent behind making things easier for humans to understand, but = I don't think it matters enough to break from the existing pattern of versi= on incrementation. It's also a bit too late, given that quantum-vulnerable = address types P2WKH and P2WSH already took the bc1q=E2=80=8B p= refix.

= More important will be other small minutiae like naming the output type (P2= QRH? or P2TSH? or P2TTH? etc), and practical necessities like fully-defined= post-quantum signature verification opcodes.

regards,
conduition
On Friday, July 18th, 2025 at 6:00 PM, Ethan Heilman <eth3rs@gma= il.com> wrote:

I want to propose a new criteria for allocating Wit= ness versions based on human meaningfulness and see if there is support for= this approach or if the community is highly allergic to this idea.<= span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);= background-color:transparent;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-= asian:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;vertical-align:baseline">

Bech32 (BIP-0173) was designe= d such that the Witness version is the first character in an address after = the =E2=80=9Cbc1=E2=80=9D address prefix

Witness Version 0: = bc1q=E2=80=A6
Witness Version 1: bc1p=E2=80=A6

Witness version = 2: bc1z=E2=80=A6

Witness version 3: bc1r=E2=80=A6

Witness version= 4: bc1y=E2=80=A6
Witness version 5: bc19=E2=80=A6

Witness ver= sion 6: bc1x=E2=80=A6

Witness version 7: bc18=E2=80=A6

Witness ve= rsion 8: bc1g=E2=80=A6

=E2=80=A6


So far we have been allocati= ng Witness Versions in incrementing numeric order (0,1,...). I want to sugg= est we allocate Witness Versions mnemonic to make it easier to look at an a= ddress and determine the output type.


This originally came up over= the question of if BIP-360 should use Witness Version 3 to get bc1r=E2=80= =A6 for P2QRH (r for resistant) or the next numerically available 2, but I = want to see how the community feels about it as a general pattern for futur= e softforks (z for compressed/zipped output, y for yield outputs, etc=E2=80= =A6).


Making it easier for users to understand the output type ass= ociated is likely to grow in importance over time as we retire output types= , add policy restricting the relay of certain output types or output types = become insecure due to cryptanalytic breaks. While wallet software should f= lag dangerous output types, some wallets may not invest in such functionali= ty or the user may be using a paper wallet. This is the same argument as pr= efixing addresses with =E2=80=9Cbc=E2=80=9D for mainnet and =E2=80=9Ctc=E2= =80=9D for testnet.


Note: the Witness version is sometimes called = the SegWit version.

Thanks,
Ethan

--
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