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[73.227.67.43]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-7cad23b6165sm234666585a.14.2025.05.02.14.09.05 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 02 May 2025 14:09:06 -0700 (PDT) From: To: "'Ruben Somsen'" , Cc: "'Sjors Provoost'" , References: <86FA0255-1A81-4DA1-9B1A-E57AD4F1DAAD@sprovoost.nl> In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [bitcoindev] The Tragic Tale of BIP30 Date: Fri, 2 May 2025 17:09:05 -0400 Message-ID: <035301dbbba6$701dd490$50597db0$@voskuil.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQJvRd78+PJgEYMTVZ1+xH+uWjc2cgG5pz42AjXO1GqyeREykA== X-Original-Sender: eric@voskuil.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@voskuil-org.20230601.gappssmtp.com header.s=20230601 header.b=BSUVPkmV; spf=none (google.com: eric@voskuil.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) smtp.mailfrom=eric@voskuil.org; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Hi Ruben, > >The obvious solution to this problem is to not create the problem in the= first > place. >=20 > Yes, that is a fair point. Not removing the checkpoints is one way of ens= uring > the consensus bug cannot be triggered. It's more than that. We are contemplating a "consensus bug" that would caus= e a chain split because the BIP30 exceptions are no longer being covered by= any checkpoint. The heights at which this would cause a split are well bel= ow all but 3 of the 14 checkpoints. For that to occur 11 formerly checkpoin= ted blocks would first have to be popped, given the existence of a stronger= chain capable of triggering the above bug. This implies 11 more chain spli= ts, depending at which point nodes adopted the checkpoint soft fork(s), jus= t to reach this bug, and up to 14 possible in total. It makes no sense to f= ix this bug without first fixing chain splits that would be triggered *over= 200,000 blocks less deep* than this BIP30 bug. And the only way to fix tho= se is to not remove the checkpoints - which renders this bug inert. > I'm agnostic about whether having > checkpoints is also a reason to forgo consensus checks such as BIP30 (or = my > proposed alternative of checking the coinbase TXID for uniqueness and > ensuring no future collision). There is certainly a reason, the checkpoints are consensus rules. > Even though checkpoints essentially force your node to halt if something = were invalid up until that point,=20 Right, if any other rule conflicted with them then the chain would stall fo= rever at that point. That is not the applied meaning of these rules. The ch= eckpoints declare that the blocks are required and therefore inherently val= id. The reason we are having this conversation is the contemplated removal = of the checkpoints, which also implies that other validation within covered= blocks is not consensus. > I still think there is value in being able to verify that the rules were = followed. Like them or not, checkpoints are the rules that are required to be followe= d. > >Solution C could be to remove it, but restore the previous UTXO >=20 > Yes, as Sjors also pointed out, I do think it is best to be precise about= which of > the duplicates you're keeping. In fact, it's probably required to ensure = the > rolling UTXO set hash remains consistent. Sure, but these are implementation details, not a matter of consensus. The = consensus behavior would be that the second output is popped with its block= and the first remains with its block. Assuming it would be written up, tha= t's how I would recommend handling it. Best, Eric --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= 035301dbbba6%24701dd490%2450597db0%24%40voskuil.org.