From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Delivery-date: Fri, 02 May 2025 15:24:48 -0700 Received: from mail-qv1-f59.google.com ([209.85.219.59]) by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1uAyoJ-0003RW-SZ for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Fri, 02 May 2025 15:24:48 -0700 Received: by mail-qv1-f59.google.com with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6f0e2d30ab4sf53305926d6.1 for ; Fri, 02 May 2025 15:24:48 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1746224682; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=FwRtb7J4dLj0hKr5K4rg1IwS9oW4daPo6qVYLmNd8uLAkQXKTYcpvTiNJFPU2StBfx igM4OfOcmHZQBM0nqWMKiaLamjskNCdeTcULPDwBpOkMVWIfe2q9JPF2tZh+S7lSp8Bh MwpCKV3HotD0EIDTDN+he8drN02kJHqmIR7yHYn26An2przR5fxqn3fTPbRcst5PbZ9d NwQ/rF1RaU0GoZfAYjvfEScyQUvUNfSZB/h5Qqm9ehHfiSWo0Cxc9MapGroZVXeSayTe zg7yU3GJU702U47agHK0YAuGIdS+w1HU9cuN/LhJjDzdx6uGkqw9SPi486xgiIN33Y3a GrtA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:thread-index:content-language :mime-version:message-id:date:subject:in-reply-to:references:cc:to :from:sender:dkim-signature; bh=YcalxKHKnBAy2SJsyj5GBU0LvA2fmQ8Hbm/rrcv6Its=; fh=JainLRaE7z0xu5C+Pxdxefa6t7A7sCxbu4vupH9YRwM=; b=Kf8bvFRzNqdNLQskf1i2Fxzek2svCrfxXXmfrt6H5EIdbqoDAoquuBLrI2s1C6rL8g //XgbBMGNoJvlHCAY6TrvxMHpmCph6GOZPdBmT711kiAjgEOmB4mLzEl+ahNrh0rnkvh 9c+ZrPteCQd78O/4bXEYWmHjc/SYONaZO4asYciU8qx6/7kWi+CCKii/dkdZHxhuRE8X j3gOq3kyioMNCyOjzmfRshplsv+Xlb0ugrVWVQ3h5tPY8vm298ZsFoK7oazEIskDtWsT BqO4D+3/LlkYXCvfKM6q9wsI2GYVkjNsgwHNcpLAlDG8Jy/tKcx3+n5DQuBBFTU9LV9S flhA==; darn=gnusha.org ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@voskuil-org.20230601.gappssmtp.com header.s=20230601 header.b=2LsbYBHC; spf=none (google.com: eric@voskuil.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) smtp.mailfrom=eric@voskuil.org; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1746224682; x=1746829482; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:thread-index:content-language:mime-version :message-id:date:subject:in-reply-to:references:cc:to:from:sender :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=YcalxKHKnBAy2SJsyj5GBU0LvA2fmQ8Hbm/rrcv6Its=; b=jijSnNuFenfYufjUM7BeYRLRUWz3/QcEH3dlXsYZwd06ZJ2dsHmmykhin2vUvXDwat GoUwzB1j4YRLaL7+CnL4deTTam/zbV2riMCPwoRkcNqcwIfHMLP92XRFUg+CvawuC15X KGoJ662ePMcDcQDFtftJJIEmOSTUZqXEdJ12X3zDSl6OdMdwgOOCZmTq/FBTvaCKr9bm m3SUYPdnQj9OqiiLH5N3SSGa8p+tj/2pSbJwuqunYYLru07W1VmCgQ9nRfdTE0ZOtS4H Xog0/xIaPNSWCWwyFv9SQ+442UlTAjmllXz06JxVuJjM6iCWdw20ZWpkW4w34BfQg38O 7qsA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1746224682; x=1746829482; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:thread-index:content-language:mime-version :message-id:date:subject:in-reply-to:references:cc:to:from :x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=YcalxKHKnBAy2SJsyj5GBU0LvA2fmQ8Hbm/rrcv6Its=; b=K5tgqmtapQ8iaw5Vw7TcnIZomSckvfwdRbleqMwNYCBMiryd/kkRvOcjrh9gxJkv7r 2xCgJZRaDxlDgBxJ/k2eXt+1RvsWKxmCcsa7HD8l8COGQJ6JbObqrEo9Jg3q99kubkVz EI3JLtO8sGCrjqe6VmOQ2cbBWNKEVMkwKzthB4E2QpeZL6I0aJhSbrU8FFioE2RQJaRy CKGayw+uXyTPizi48/+c9iakSEAIx9fZqKCMQMdVcHZ6UgjNil/QK2ySfn/yF5q9srKu QlpnhePozCCinTHX/I2+P0zf95e9dbhzQgEKDa9xstG0+IqLK7FyDtGhPxJ9xG91ZmLg raPg== Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCURleWnGWIkptlvywy2Klq/qHXsY4DIDXaGUIycDRshqImfv+chkNpfmVikhJERYJyf1ao0e8BOs3Xd@gnusha.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzciByA13ObtM03hjfxy/C9xdVzwNegPzwT0yh+RDMhRGAztnwG 7c4BPVepbMr/u9XYLN4nsHdmMgcn5sL+48i9lRpPcIoD9bG9HPfF X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGKRxa8rkqKHDayD32dInajnSGgiMDn/X0wyoKDBrkYIr8Gh36VkY8Uzq1cRqBqsnioCal9yQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:21a1:b0:6e8:fa33:2969 with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6f5237552b3mr13084426d6.10.1746224681854; Fri, 02 May 2025 15:24:41 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h=AVT/gBH2GfCNZeLxa746RFc3Q9Uv5wZjuN4g4Pt+te/pUGpN6w== Received: by 2002:a0c:e9d2:0:b0:6e8:f267:6759 with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6f5083e0591ls31729896d6.0.-pod-prod-02-us; Fri, 02 May 2025 15:24:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:3189:b0:7c9:50a6:8595 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7cadfe16043mr118774985a.28.1746224679013; Fri, 02 May 2025 15:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 2002:a05:620a:3602:b0:7b6:d2da:e6ae with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7cad5cae937ms85a; Fri, 2 May 2025 14:09:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:212e:b0:6e6:6599:edf6 with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6f5237fc129mr7682716d6.34.1746220171454; Fri, 02 May 2025 14:09:31 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1746220171; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=CeGKRqYIjzwMPgW0Fte4kMciHGfcyoVQ6I1osK9vuPhMFqCvvmNz+OUsKJ5cPtE/EH w67REGquTnkoXHqkug8qkxiYbzApiQVWFd8EKVKvCnR4ZvzFnRBlFwTUbUS+nm1lO1ZH qlsMel+pAqh8dqwmw0XyJyNwrapf3u7PmeaoaH1+TZ/VADKn4Zly2GNjDM5chSVLN1aO gaJuqf6qMCQIpDcowW6BpxJqaG/JFxrRn6gjKExrE+O0FMnx+fcS7GlbESpHpOhUEMUD 0RpSz3aZRtMHIoTPeFZbRMEmGRNNXwYwVh56B3dtQoPaEr+9IVpmEZb+robO6V6IHDP3 pMhw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=thread-index:content-language:content-transfer-encoding :mime-version:message-id:date:subject:in-reply-to:references:cc:to :from:dkim-signature; bh=/PnJjfMS+ZFsI61ZLgrcltFvpkW2aFV+qP1zQuT9inE=; fh=zf/MpWCkJZ+hBIAVamEjg2t5anOZtL9++VxuOdBzgoY=; b=Rkf4ec0GBSO7ekasktKwkmtNZKVKlfVcuL9cshmaRZNFXGsTWxhwy6kU1nAIJsY5OP mvMMLFL8OBNFs0Ot9Rn+1E6XWC1Uegfgy5W0HM3bdYp7CewLGuS8G+F/1lmAxQr9meFk x21vaX3yMTXPVhNVGcQrUxaESbtC3nRAugvJEFXgWZnWAad3AfBPUa6AyV+61fer1chk Y/TktXKUxSAZDC0NevCjTC9gts5OvVZ7fg7Kgpfsibo23W2/T+4Jt2lQCF3NI9yd5/Hh ufF4RDQCyJ86wS1xPSzmwLKjOpD4ZG18eUvf8BtOrF+7WAuTULu3OE4qZgbFLmcU8FQy rDag==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@voskuil-org.20230601.gappssmtp.com header.s=20230601 header.b=2LsbYBHC; spf=none (google.com: eric@voskuil.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) smtp.mailfrom=eric@voskuil.org; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Received: from mail-qk1-x731.google.com (mail-qk1-x731.google.com. [2607:f8b0:4864:20::731]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 6a1803df08f44-6f50f41c6dasi1740046d6.4.2025.05.02.14.09.31 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 02 May 2025 14:09:31 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: none (google.com: eric@voskuil.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::731; Received: by mail-qk1-x731.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7c542ffec37so311504285a.2 for ; Fri, 02 May 2025 14:09:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnct9Nuo8WrPX362ZJoXeUNbOYTCRrm49xiB25zDsXDn8+KJAQD/vIurAjRYkEZs eEfaaq4v610CKkavhBvg8DOXOtwYDnh1GgY3MHOc9NWVu0vYX046WnjvMTINM6gY6Ti+5RaWOG4 N+66F/FmJ+fGaSs11lnUJSDv0iclb+1jeLvTWPMGJDmOPsOxe7at8mkoa1Oz/uw+7ieEA1NIED9 LfWG8GG331Ey6cl7pI3ujclTxHVms3hjOPosY9VET42Z8eQbIwqQm6wzPvyprCs/N1fGhvDx7WO NMGYzclcWOfiiEpxbNmUlRIcxBxqEGZ0fUNQGCNjfqyKxeHRKBOCVL4vGi7gLyHJeUtzXP/28GL hCRinbw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:2a01:b0:7c9:5eca:ea3b with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7cadfe18a6amr96710985a.31.1746220170783; Fri, 02 May 2025 14:09:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ERICDESKTOP (c-73-227-67-43.hsd1.nh.comcast.net. [73.227.67.43]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-7cad243f339sm234734685a.90.2025.05.02.14.09.30 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 02 May 2025 14:09:30 -0700 (PDT) From: To: "'Sjors Provoost'" , "'Ruben Somsen'" Cc: , References: <86FA0255-1A81-4DA1-9B1A-E57AD4F1DAAD@sprovoost.nl> In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [bitcoindev] The Tragic Tale of BIP30 Date: Fri, 2 May 2025 17:09:29 -0400 Message-ID: <035401dbbba6$7ea41790$7bec46b0$@voskuil.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQJvRd78+PJgEYMTVZ1+xH+uWjc2cgG5pz42AjXO1GoCZcHOVrJl8dLw X-Original-Sender: eric@voskuil.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@voskuil-org.20230601.gappssmtp.com header.s=20230601 header.b=2LsbYBHC; spf=none (google.com: eric@voskuil.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) smtp.mailfrom=eric@voskuil.org; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Hi Sjors, > > >In the case of BIP30, one option could be to have a rule that says: if the > 2014 checkpoint is missing, then enforce the BIP54 Consensus Cleanup > nLockTime rule from genesis. BIP34 can then simply go away. > > > > I'm afraid it's not that simple. If you wanted to fork off from some arbitrary > point prior to the last checkpoint, you'd want to enforce the new consensus > rules from that exact point (not from genesis), but that requires shipping the > full node software with a hash for every possible block that could be forked off > from. It's roughly 8MB of data so it's not impossible, and I even had this > written up as an alternative solution, but I removed it in favor of the solution I > ended up describing. > > The trick is that no blocks obey the BIP54 rule for nLockTime, so they'll all be > rejected and you can fork off starting at block 1. This ignores the chain splits resulting from the 14 checkpoints that have been removed to get to block 1. If the consensus is to not care about these hard forks causing chain splits, there is really no reason to care about this BIP30 chain split being caused by their removal. Best, Eric -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/035401dbbba6%247ea41790%247bec46b0%24%40voskuil.org.