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[192.3.11.21]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 46e09a7af769-7304f165b70si80817a34.1.2025.04.26.02.51.17 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2025 02:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of luke@dashjr.org designates 192.3.11.21 as permitted sender) client-ip=192.3.11.21; Received: from [1.2.3.4] (redacted.redacted [1.2.3.4]) (Authenticated sender: mailrelay) by zinan.dashjr.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 919A4396017A for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2025 09:50:57 +0000 (UTC) X-Hashcash: 1:23:250426:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com::9P3BZSbbW/DvwGp7:ajCG4 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------DFsuB6pdSTXJN6nWRxk0yIFV" Message-ID: <03be4934-f0ff-4b58-880d-861d63a4f970@dashjr.org> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2025 05:50:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Relax OP_RETURN standardness restrictions To: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com References: Content-Language: en-US, en-GB From: Luke Dashjr In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: luke@dashjr.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@dashjr.org header.s=zinan header.b=GbqE7zNJ; spf=pass (google.com: domain of luke@dashjr.org designates 192.3.11.21 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=luke@dashjr.org; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=dashjr.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------DFsuB6pdSTXJN6nWRxk0yIFV Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed It should be needless to say, but this idea is utter insanity. Disappointing to see positive responses, and not one sensible reply calling it out yet. The bugs should be fixed, not the abuse embraced. If attackers continue to bypass filters, we can go back to a full whitelist approach. We're now 2+ years into this wave of attacks, and the damage it has already done should be more than enough to prove the hands-off attitude is not viable. Am I the only one left on this list who actually cares about Bitcoin's survival? On 4/17/25 14:52, 'Antoine Poinsot' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List wrote: > Hi, > > Standardness rules exist for 3 mains reasons: mitigate DoS vectors, > provide upgrade hooks, or as a nudge to deter some usages. > > Bitcoin Core will by default only relay and mine transactions with at > most a single OP_RETURN output, with a scriptPubKey no larger than 83 > bytes. This standardness rule falls into the third category: it aims > to mildly deter data storage while still allowing a less harmful > alternative than using non-provably-unspendable outputs. > > Developers are now designing constructions that work around these > limitations. An example is Clementine, the recently-announced Citrea > bridge, which uses unspendable Taproot outputs to store data in its > "WatchtowerChallenge" transaction due to the standardness restrictions > on the size of OP_RETURNs[^0]. Meanwhile, we have witnessed in recent > years that the nudge is ineffective to deter storing data onchain. > > Since the restrictions on the usage of OP_RETURN outputs encourage > harmful practices while being ineffective in deterring unwanted usage, > i propose to drop them. I suggest to start by lifting the restriction > on the size of the scriptPubKey for OP_RETURN outputs, as a first > minimal step to stop encouraging harmful behaviour, and to then > proceed to lift the restriction on the number of OP_RETURN outputs per > transactions. > > Antoine Poinsot > > [^0]: See section 6.1 of their whitepaper here > https://citrea.xyz/clementine_whitepaper.pdf > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/rhfyCHr4RfaEalbfGejVdolYCVWIyf84PT2062DQbs5-eU8BPYty5sGyvI3hKeRZQtVC7rn_ugjUWFnWCymz9e9Chbn7FjWJePllFhZRKYk%3D%40protonmail.com > . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/03be4934-f0ff-4b58-880d-861d63a4f970%40dashjr.org. --------------DFsuB6pdSTXJN6nWRxk0yIFV Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

It should be needless to say, but this idea is utter insanity. Disappointing to see positive responses, and not one sensible reply calling it out yet. The bugs should be fixed, not the abuse embraced. If attackers continue to bypass filters, we can go back to a full whitelist approach. We're now 2+ years into this wave of attacks, and the damage it has already done should be more than enough to prove the hands-off attitude is not viable. Am I the only one left on this list who actually cares about Bitcoin's survival?

On 4/17/25 14:52, 'Antoine Poinsot' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List wrote:

Since the restrictions on the usage of OP_RETURN outputs encourage harmful practices while being ineffective in deterring unwanted usage, i propose to drop them. I suggest to start by lifting the restriction on the size of the scriptPubKey for OP_RETURN outputs, as a first minimal step to stop encouraging harmful behaviour, and to then proceed to lift the restriction on the number of OP_RETURN outputs per transactions.

Antoine Poinsot

[^0]: See section 6.1 of their whitepaper here https:= //citrea.xyz/clementine_whitepaper.pdf
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