From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B645279 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2015 01:28:30 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-pd0-f182.google.com (mail-pd0-f182.google.com [209.85.192.182]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89CEC13E for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2015 01:28:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pdbnt7 with SMTP id nt7so4966985pdb.0 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:28:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=prZvXhFLvGjjTDxZF8QmFHTlrPf6OBHUXbWLV4w2n7Y=; b=0HZbfR4pEmZaoZgs/8FCx7ljdC7ptAB7YFilra10BDDwWo1kOQUtUW/vaz+QY37Bzv TsA7erkWwQGM623ZwLSO3DYGn7B4Xvx7aQX/gOd+kYCiLYecR2+7iItFKEs3/JmHpeGh GCMcp1+WA6OMPmYsP0PHpLwWjwlHppv6S9mSlWl7pa3EKYYzxqd2SWRjQ4X1/NqKVxj5 nQStzlp1JIFWKpxgycs/rrrA2h9e464Bno9cDxsDIt54hxhss3cLPDT71VVQlN8AOzwH 2cdZXoctoZAFms+iJeyKxYH0Q9fwJR8RuZcgC8/5sY+8O6fJg87bp89eX5ME4mgQOFER ++9Q== X-Received: by 10.66.119.105 with SMTP id kt9mr25386927pab.86.1437701309152; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:28:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.107] (cpe-76-167-237-202.san.res.rr.com. [76.167.237.202]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id xo14sm11235957pac.24.2015.07.23.18.28.26 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:28:27 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7D23AA7C-B4C7-477B-AF76-01C7FAF66B10"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5b6 From: Eric Lombrozo In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:28:25 -0700 Message-Id: <0E15E07E-E21C-4541-869A-3C34CBA35774@gmail.com> References: <55B113AF.40500@thinlink.com> <6F436293-9E2B-461C-B105-FC4CF9EBFC69@gmail.com> <42BF7FEB-320F-43BE-B3D9-1D76CB8B9975@gmai> <346D4CE0-E00D-4ABB-B131-EFA1416CB20C@me.com> <29363BE6-72A7-4D06-A974-C52BA12FD8BD@gmail.com> <55FFBC8F-A3C9-4109-89C7-AC359FBBD478@me.com> <4734381C-2000-4D9B-9099-DDE3D38D64A3@me.com> To: Jean-Paul Kogelman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Jean-Paul Kogelman via bitcoin-dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin Core and hard forks X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 01:28:30 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7D23AA7C-B4C7-477B-AF76-01C7FAF66B10 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I suppose you can use a timelocked output that is spendable by anyone = you could go somewhat in this direction=E2=80=A6the thing is it still = means the wallet must make fee estimations rather than being able to get = a quick quote. > On Jul 23, 2015, at 6:25 PM, Jean-Paul Kogelman = wrote: >=20 > I think implicit QoS is far simpler to implement, requires less = parties and is closer to what Bitcoin started out as: a peer-to-peer = digital cash system, not a peer-to-let-me-handle-that-for-you-to-peer = system. >=20 > jp >=20 >> On Jul 24, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Eric Lombrozo = wrote: >>=20 >> By using third parties separate from individual miners that do = bidding on your behalf you get a mechanism that allows QoS guarantees = and shifting the complexity and risk from the wallet with little = computational resources to a service with abundance of them. Using = timelocked contracts it=E2=80=99s possible to enforce the guarantees. >>=20 >> Negotiating directly with miners via smart contracts seems difficult = at best. >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Jul 23, 2015, at 6:03 PM, Jean-Paul Kogelman via bitcoin-dev = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Doesn't matter. >>>=20 >>> It's not going to be perfect given the block time variance among = other factors but it's far more workable than guessing whether or not = your transaction is going to end up in a block at all. >>>=20 >>> jp >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On Jul 24, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Peter Todd wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>> Hash: SHA256 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> On 23 July 2015 20:49:20 GMT-04:00, Jean-Paul Kogelman via = bitcoin-dev wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> And it's obvious how a size cap would interfere with such a QoS = scheme. >>>>> Miners wouldn't be able to deliver the below guarantees if they = have to >>>>> start excluding transactions. >>>>=20 >>>> As mining is a random, poisson process, obviously giving guarantees = without a majority of hashing power isn't possible. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>=20 >>>> iQE9BAEBCAAnIBxQZXRlciBUb2RkIDxwZXRlQHBldGVydG9kZC5vcmc+BQJVsYyK >>>> AAoJEMCF8hzn9Lnc47AH/28WlecQLb37CiJpcvXO9tC4zqYEodurtB9nBHTSJrug >>>> VIEXZW53pSTdd3vv2qpGIlHxuYP8QmDSATztwQLuN6XWEszz7TO8MXBfLxKqZyGu >>>> i83WqSGjMAfwqjl0xR1G7PJgt4+E+0vaAFZc98vLCgZnedbiXRVtTGjhofG1jjTc >>>> DFMwMZHP0eqWTwtWwqUvnA7PTFHxdqoJruY/t1KceN+JDbBCJWMxBDswU64FXcVH >>>> 0ecsk9nhLMyylBX/2v4HjCXyayocH8jQ+FpLSP0xxERyS+f1npFX9cxFMq24uXqn >>>> PcnZfLfaSJ6gMbmhbYG5wYDKN3u732j7dLzSJnMW6jk=3D >>>> =3DLY1+ >>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> bitcoin-dev mailing list >>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >>=20 --Apple-Mail=_7D23AA7C-B4C7-477B-AF76-01C7FAF66B10 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJVsZS5AAoJEJNAI64YFENUh4cP/RtbVPiuTxKq0pD7Pwt9pX1G d+XdffXQbWvc/0FPplcBYsGYJjc4uOyeeN5Q4EO77MgYdN41uTP5lpj+yJpq/XgP Dy6eGhVih5Rw51cIYHj3myGNNc8B6UudC7PNnE4iV3YluyFnIyIMqo+KiFesgP/K su8dVs2BQ1RA9X9jMGZNwIMtlqaDQSn2Mb4SEDYtN0SKLgiwjl/Ike1Pjk6ypX4a gcz9vc3u69X0YOMWmU2tLtuWM7fVOud54qIUyu2kYQKd6HtphatxWJU3tPE5DQyp MGEQ22sqHH0suDOtu6bIKtFupNWGuuiBnugFSUii2L312J1Y5qLewLvqLjY8JkQY PiB+60cb7BYDW3/lRMzQR7Rt+RKFewZJDgt5fC+5ESFeg3HqSsfu78XLWe4/DG1t f8TKvcmqa68WsQzXsauY2xizN8p5tLx0heU7i5QQplWIN5LZc89K1ItWbYj+zkqy b6sy4hY+wM8y5BPolMVCCuRiiZzAqiWxR8ZkX6vfczIBhKedTu+o0cJw1wBcv/d9 VeUYzbZleiw3zZgig+hO7dVEElrH634i82sF/dUM1/0fu+oiojHmStpNfgXJM7tV AE0+yocrlF+Mww/XvMlqKZ4Jzh4uozQakVVR0Le+fNkw10WzGroWEtS9Py46T+4U /E3OZdYEbULgiVnJDkBk =SEYd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_7D23AA7C-B4C7-477B-AF76-01C7FAF66B10--