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[185.70.40.18]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j4-20020a05600c1c0400b00416488ec4d9si220725wms.0.2024.04.20.14.08.41 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 20 Apr 2024 14:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lists@achow101.com designates 185.70.40.18 as permitted sender) client-ip=185.70.40.18; Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 21:08:25 +0000 To: Steve Lee From: "'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" Cc: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors Message-ID: <0d4d85e3-9fbb-4bd4-af0f-92225e699b63@achow101.com> In-Reply-To: References: <2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com> <4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com> <6806b22d-043d-4201-841a-95e17cd8d542@mattcorallo.com> <77554baa9330c57361c65c1fc85557f1@dtrt.org> <7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben@googlegroups.com> <070755a0-10e9-4903-9524-dd8ef98c1c8b@achow101.com> Feedback-ID: 53660394:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: f369abfa24c7b6c8e0f282d00ae87744b03920c4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Original-Sender: lists@achow101.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@achow101.com header.s=protonmail3 header.b=dZt7x01y; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lists@achow101.com designates 185.70.40.18 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lists@achow101.com; dmarc=pass (p=REJECT sp=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=achow101.com X-Original-From: Ava Chow Reply-To: Ava Chow Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 04/20/2024 04:46 PM, Steve Lee wrote: > Wasn't there evidence provided that Kanzure does not want this=20 > responsibility without being paid? I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've talked to him=20 about being a BIPs editor. > I'm confused by this process that we don't even ask the people if they=20 > want the responsibility? I think only Laolu has chimed in to commit to it= ? Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all confirmed to=20 me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and Murch[2]=20 have also replied to this thread about this. Ava [1]:=20 https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@goog= legroups.com/ [2]:=20 https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch= .one/ >=20 > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30=E2=80=AFPM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Developme= nt=20 > Mailing List > wrote: >=20 > Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform > everyone of what will happen on Monday. >=20 > There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have the= re > been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email= . > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack, > Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday > April 22nd. >=20 > Ava >=20 > On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing Li= st > wrote: > > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add = at > > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of th= e > > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual > > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit > objections > > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't sh= are > > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be > endorsed > > by many others. > > > > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the curre= nt > > counts are: > > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against > > * Murch - 13 for > > * Jonatack - 13 for > > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against > > * Roasbeef - 9 for > > * Michael Folkson - none > > > > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest = and > > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this > process > > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by > > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any = of > > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 w= ho > > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this lis= t > > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone > really > > wants to deal with. > > > > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have > posted > > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have > reached out > > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure an= d > > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public > > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not > > received a response from Roasbeef. > > > > Ava > > > > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on= this > task, so > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the gr= oup > >> majority. > >> > >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. > Having > >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in > which people > >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not > end up > >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does = not > >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end = up > >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far > from > >> their expectations. > >> > >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, = and > >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and > we need > >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and > slacking off). > >> > >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. > >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on > their track > >> record in the space > >> > >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30=E2=80=AFPM nvk > >> >> wrote: > >> > >> +1 for > >> Kanzure > >> RubenSomsen > >> Seccour > >> Jon Atack > >> Roasbeef > >> > >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the gr= oup > >> majority. > >> > >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas= . > >> > >> I'd like to return to that. > >> > >> - NVK (temp gmail account) > >> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54=E2=80=AFP= M UTC-4 David A. > Harding wrote: > >> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Coral= lo wrote: > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> Please provide justific= ation rather than simply > saying "I > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 like Bob!". > >> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Using only comments from the ma= iling list, the > following appears > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to be > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the candidate list along with t= he current support. > Asterisks denote > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 candidates who indicated their = willingness to accept > the role. > >> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recom= mended by Ava Chow[1], Chris > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Stewart[3], > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[= 9], Matt Corallo[10], > Brandon > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Black[11], > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], A= ntoine Poinsot[15], John > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Carvalho[16] > >> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Ruben Somsen, recommended by = Ava Chow[1], Chris > Stewart[3], > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Michael > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], = Murch[13], Antoine > Poinsot[15], John > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Carvalho[16] > >> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Jon Atack*, recommended by Lu= ke Dashjr[2], Chris > Stewart[3], > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 /dev/fd0[5][7], > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riar= d[12], Ava Chow[14], John > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Carvalho[16] > >> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun= , recommended by Chris > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Stewart[3], John > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7],= Keagan McClelland[8], > Antoine > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > >> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recomm= ended by Michael > Folkson[6], Keagan > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10]= , Brandon Black[11], Antoine > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Riard[12], > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ava Chow[14] > >> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Michael Folkson* > >> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] = Seccour and Greg Tonoski for > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "non-dev > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 triaging", Tonoski proposed him= self[18] for "BIP > editor", and > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Antoine > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Riard[12] proposed Seccour for = "decentralized PM". > >> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I searched the BIPs repo by com= menter to see if any of > the above > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 candidates had been especially = active there, which is > listed > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 below as: > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 total PRs they commented on (nu= mber still open/number > closed). > >> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandam= us > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfo= lkson > >> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I'll also note that Osuntokun i= s the only member of the > set to > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 have a > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 merged BIP that they co-authore= d, although I believe > there are > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 far-along > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft BIPs for both Murch (term= inology) and Somsen (Silent > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Payments). I > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 don't think this should be a re= quirement, but I do think it > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 demonstrates > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 familiarity with the process. > >> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Speaking only for myself, I thi= nk all of the candidates > above with > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 multiple recommendations from o= ther community > participants are > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 fully > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 qualified for the role, so I'll= only provide a detailed > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 justification > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 for the person who would be my = first pick: Murch is not > only a > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 longstanding and broadly liked = Bitcoin contributor, but > (as Corallo > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 mentioned) he has worked on sta= ndardizing terminology > through a > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BIP. In addition, he provided a= n extremely detailed > review of > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 all 300 > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pages of a draft of Mastering B= itcoin (3rd edition) and has > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 reviewed > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 drafts of over 200 weekly Optec= h newsletters, in both cases > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 significantly improving the acc= uracy and > comprehensibility of the > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 documentation. To me, that seem= s very similar to the > work we'd > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ask him > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to perform as a BIPs editor and= it's something that > he's already > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 doing, > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 so I think there's an excellent= fit of person to role. > >> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -Dave > >> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [1] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ > > > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [2] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ > > > > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [3] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.c= om/ > > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [4] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.c= om/ > > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [5] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.c= om/ > > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [6] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.c= om/ > > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [7] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.c= om/ > > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [8] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=3DwruqgLE= azRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ > > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [9] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > > >> =20 > > > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [10] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.co= m/ > > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [11] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > >> =20 > > > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [12] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gm= ail.com/ > > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [13] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > > > > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [14] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ > > > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [15] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXs= uizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=3D@= protonmail.com/ > > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [16] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.c= om/ > > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [17] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU=3D=3DYJMv= d9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ > > >> > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -- > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 You received this message because you are sub= scribed to the > Google > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" gro= up. > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 To unsubscribe from this group and stop recei= ving emails > from it, > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googl= egroups.com > > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >. > >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 To view this discussion on the web visit > >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-= aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com >. > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Sergi. > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e > >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > it, send > >> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > > >> >. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_x= iXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com >. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-= 3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com . >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/070755a0-10e9-4903-9524-= dd8ef98c1c8b%40achow101.com . >=20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. 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