From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A98E2707 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 19:39:38 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-pd0-f172.google.com (mail-pd0-f172.google.com [209.85.192.172]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44CFA165 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 19:39:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pdbbh15 with SMTP id bh15so1030554pdb.1 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 12:39:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=P5t4CoWA/thWmL60+Fz9WPLT54gfaoVPZ8AReqQji9I=; b=CizuclrkosTD5tkFPCJqCDjpa+TY6jmy+DrN4zs4IIL27WqDWgo/fMlQOLfoe7CSr2 5qea+1kVfBRAeziRubB7A6HyLZ6xCUYAu99n8vNpu2KB7bJnNjKDBNZoCnOQ8REQYSbn Wg+sYHusXFZyBEBv1S3hyglhSChyQPIMiFhpNAJekyZoL9QMehc3335rmLs7qxCqbpDi Ak6PR1Xc4njO91MDvul6vHwu8mem05pyulcYO0O49YgyOfEo2sY9cXvYBTT4HhcnP0EF Wg2wG/GajH8h9rNt/Hy8BnYbVjOtWvK+bavJ37Yjn1X6hk+r1Z1ZI+OGrD/F1NXknpgh h68Q== X-Received: by 10.66.119.136 with SMTP id ku8mr21591299pab.26.1437680377948; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 12:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.107] (cpe-76-167-237-202.san.res.rr.com. [76.167.237.202]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id dc8sm10432275pdb.23.2015.07.23.12.39.35 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 23 Jul 2015 12:39:36 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_734DE390-00EF-4FE5-A84F-32C3D3ACC1CB"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5b6 From: Eric Lombrozo In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 12:39:33 -0700 Message-Id: <122B1683-E67C-43BE-830D-029AAB03CE80@gmail.com> References: <55B113AF.40500@thinlink.com> <6F436293-9E2B-461C-B105-FC4CF9EBFC69@gmail.com> To: Gavin Andresen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin Core and hard forks X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 19:39:38 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_734DE390-00EF-4FE5-A84F-32C3D3ACC1CB Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CC8D4DB7-E60F-438D-ACC4-7F79EC155EF3" --Apple-Mail=_CC8D4DB7-E60F-438D-ACC4-7F79EC155EF3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jul 23, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Gavin Andresen = wrote: >=20 >=20 > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:14 PM, Eric Lombrozo > wrote: > Mainstream usage of cryptocurrency will be enabled primarily by direct = party-to-party contract negotiation=E2=80=A6with the use of the = blockchain primarily as a dispute resolution mechanism. The block size = isn=E2=80=99t about scaling but about supply and demand of finite = resources. As demand for block space increases, we can address it either = by increasing computational resources (block size) or by increasing = fees. But to do the former we need a way to offset the increase in cost = by making sure that those who contribute said resources have incentive = to do so. >=20 > There are so many things wrong with this paragraph I just can't let it = slide. >=20 > "Mainstream usage will be enabled primarily by..." Maybe. Maybe not, = we don't know what use case(s) will primarily take cryptocurrency = mainstream. I believe it is a big mistake to pick one and bet "THIS is = going to be the winner". >=20 > "we can address it either by... or..." False dichotomy. There are = lots of things we can do to decrease costs, and a lot of things have = ALREADY been done (e.g. running a pruned full node). I HATE the "it = must be this or that" "us or them" attitude, it fosters unproductive = bickering and negativity. >=20 > (and yes, I'm human, I'm sure you can find instances in the recent = past where I did it, too... mea culpa) >=20 > -- > -- > Gavin Andresen >=20 Regarding rhetoric, fair enough, Gavin - I=E2=80=99m human and I could = be wrong. It is my educated best guess, a conclusion I=E2=80=99ve drawn = given my understanding of computer science, economics, and what=E2=80=99s = been happening in this space. --Apple-Mail=_CC8D4DB7-E60F-438D-ACC4-7F79EC155EF3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On Jul 23, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail.com> wrote:


On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:14 PM, Eric Lombrozo = <elombrozo@gmail.com> = wrote:
Mainstream usage = of cryptocurrency will be enabled primarily by direct party-to-party = contract negotiation=E2=80=A6with the use of the blockchain primarily as = a dispute resolution mechanism. The block size isn=E2=80=99t about = scaling but about supply and demand of finite resources. As demand for = block space increases, we can address it either by increasing = computational resources (block size) or by increasing fees. But to do = the former we need a way to offset the increase in cost by making sure = that those who contribute said resources have incentive to do = so.

There are so many things wrong with = this paragraph I just can't let it slide.

"Mainstream usage will be enabled primarily by..." =  Maybe. Maybe not, we don't know what use case(s) will primarily = take cryptocurrency mainstream. I believe it is a big mistake to pick = one and bet "THIS is going to be the winner".

"we = can address it either by... or..."  False dichotomy. There are lots = of things we can do to decrease costs, and a lot of things have ALREADY = been done (e.g. running a pruned full node).  I HATE the "it must = be this or that" "us or them" attitude, it fosters unproductive = bickering and negativity.

(and yes, I'm human, I'm = sure you can find instances in the recent past where I did it, too... = mea culpa)

--
--
Gavin Andresen


Regarding = rhetoric, fair enough, Gavin - I=E2=80=99m human and I could be wrong. = It is my educated best guess, a conclusion I=E2=80=99ve drawn given my = understanding of computer science, economics, and what=E2=80=99s been = happening in this space.
= --Apple-Mail=_CC8D4DB7-E60F-438D-ACC4-7F79EC155EF3-- --Apple-Mail=_734DE390-00EF-4FE5-A84F-32C3D3ACC1CB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJVsUL1AAoJEJNAI64YFENUDPkP/305NLQgdixl7gEj0tv0OkR+ VZqs0k+fHbxM/rzPE7AXDlgCM7iZueKccPD1oSEHviFo36k50VQKK9pUQc/RoeVf OLTfDIxV0yLNJPhE1z87W5x2lfzu9/kLpIL+bv3/ZJL9iclOGkVEQYgbMS0+x6Cp YgLuSQORDrD/ejC+OLXWQKLTzmd3lKWgCYPbGQrUZq7FMkOm/Qej3Lzk8cqGqZZB DAMgt1nR0u4orCrHGnmOt1/pnadturWtZXS5YDTBt4Mr2v5YO2GTEKDCqURZN904 3rkVMHSLXXVxr3Dd3aGBjhu8xWDhndbzvK3+04VQTCciwNrkf2pM1FIR2ZAN1D1Q d16AnkzierVnxkax3JbE/ouv8lR7VsL6gm1YC1jIE8wQJzo/VXJ8llvxkP51rWgY q5tX/uBcXtbcv/kfR6ShNrNvQIVgqlBfLOz1GJ4cL49VF3Xha1bkNP4CDTJhdRG2 BikeniVNInGSPgZSfWWlDViiJLscmcJCnT5Dw8NIAWHpbQlnsKHQ91iC6TB10nqW hJfbt3pnZISJ8B8uad5JVDlKQznQ2c29vYdXwT5pULgh00FpyljdNa/2SAaiSx48 S0smMxEJQ/evHfJ3t+tXU6YdQy39xpoKtZxBbIX+pAbI3HW5uC9h8bfZGyldaUdH /isKCxH3LDDnLJK/nJ69 =wcGM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_734DE390-00EF-4FE5-A84F-32C3D3ACC1CB--