From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1QlkR8-0003po-Vy for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 16:24:50 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of bluematt.me designates 208.79.240.5 as permitted sender) client-ip=208.79.240.5; envelope-from=bitcoin-list@bluematt.me; helo=smtpauth.rollernet.us; Received: from smtpauth.rollernet.us ([208.79.240.5]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76) id 1QlkR6-0003cx-LO for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 16:24:50 +0000 Received: from smtpauth.rollernet.us (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtpauth.rollernet.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7D3F594015 for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 09:24:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.bluematt.me (mail.bluematt.me [IPv6:2001:470:9ff2:2::13]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: @bluematt.me) by smtpauth.rollernet.us (Postfix) with ESMTPSA for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 09:24:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:470:9ff2:1:2c0:caff:fe33:858b] (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:9ff2:1:2c0:caff:fe33:858b]) by mail.bluematt.me (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 059182D9 for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:24:36 +0200 (CEST) From: Matt Corallo To: bitcoin-development In-Reply-To: References: <1311644156.29866.4.camel@Desktop666> <1311678417.21495.9.camel@Desktop666> <1311691885.23041.2.camel@Desktop666> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-mrRW++YML4eQ5E/Rldjt" Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:24:36 +0200 Message-ID: <1311697476.23041.7.camel@Desktop666> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.2 X-Rollernet-Abuse: Processed by Roller Network Mail Services. Contact abuse@rollernet.us to report violations. Abuse policy: http://rollernet.us/abuse.php X-Rollernet-Submit: Submit ID 315.4e2eea3c.3d834.0 X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record X-Headers-End: 1QlkR6-0003cx-LO Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] bitcoin DNS addresses X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 16:24:51 -0000 --=-mrRW++YML4eQ5E/Rldjt Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For some reason my mail client is being thick and not responding on-list, sorry about that... On Tue, 2011-07-26 at 08:34 -0700, Rick Wesson wrote: > > Most OSes dont do any resolving at all, they just query upstream > > resolvers. In the case of the coffee shop, that upstream resolver is > > the attacker. This attacker can easily just claim that the zone you > > requested is not DNSSEC signed and return their data and the OS will no= t > > be any wiser. AFAIK, most OSes dont have a mechanism to require the > > zone queried is DNSSEC signed meaning you have to implement a full DNS > > resolver in Bitcoin in order for it to be secure. >=20 > Matt, >=20 > The same attack can apply to https with a self signed cert where it is > the A record that is replaced by the attacker and the https request is > sent to evil.com's server which responds to the request with an answer > in the form you expect. This is what lots of malware does on windows > to steel bank login credentials, securing http doesn't prevent such an > attack. If you are using a self-signed cert to do any kind of important data transfer you are just being stupid. Here I am assuming your computer isnt actually compromised, but only the network is, which I think is a fairly good assumption. >=20 > Windows has supported DNSSEC since 2008 as have most of the unix > variants, mac osx since 10.3 Android also seems to include DNSSEC > capable resolvers. >=20 > If this thread is really about DNSSEC then we might move it to a more > appropriate forum for discussing how applications leverage DNS > security extensions. Its taken some years to get the specs done and > the root signed I expect it to take many more to enable the > applications to leverage the deployed infrastructure. No, DNSSEC is very well done, this thread is specifically about the security implications of using DNSSEC for Bitcoin address communication. IMO it is not a good idea, as for it to be secure against a coffee-shop network MITMer you have to implement a full resolver with root trust anchors and knowledge of root servers in Bitcoin, which does not seem like a good idea. >=20 > I am interested in working on the issues surrounding usability and I > find that remembering and communicating a bitcoin address are current > limiting factors in the acceptance and deployment of this software. My > goal is for simpler user experience. I totally agree, however I don't think DNS-based resolving is a good idea here. HTTPS does have several advantages over a DNSSEC-based solution without any significant drawbacks that I can see. Matt --=-mrRW++YML4eQ5E/Rldjt Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAABAgAGBQJOLuo7AAoJEBrh01BD4I5UI9EP/A8HUpPoMxlB7P6efE4J3H+1 qIht3qHMrXeJikhvCOIWi8cXKM/rgjPwlFcJue6SfZofckdL6qCdG1QwhfAPKAa9 M7IPvckULa5QuMV2fPcElaI6xJzDwmWE5XVdIqvknuBnSRbumN2H/F7CZexML6iL zNKMu4QJoWyYofx5q7RjzPRrHfxV9uFnSG9AkYRRx5uIAyPs0GKq9UCIDKtLcTGC vhjFzt8qujB+wR8Dz6e1wCtxxMLJaNuv0XD5vEpXiPJFJgO5wf8x2HSSnN2FAo6K gXh6uo60hZtmSXu3dC1UdBWhfSa6fe98KdMoFAQAPFVBI/SNyH615n8uBdWGb4i+ 7HSfIuqKyx6Z5UifV7sj+ISfxGDKKDb48DWcW6rNtSPvr+UXWbnQlAf2xjo5thMw SmpC7wLigTWvwv+Y1p5DGdgwuq70pCvCuNi6VpB096SK7xk5r51L/a6LLu+FJcMN 8TUH6AzTS4Wx3XFYZ1P0HEjWjlkADjHsGTouhb6+WECj2xJLCrCO6z82ytIVgCur r6+Dygz0xyUoK6ne7vRLMYwHaMyNxvu4OeV7Ctzzd4CWvfjRsjKqIEf8/UlsUWbs YOuh3gHkXvgD2nuuVRkojFYnrb8XCGNEzODWxtYLhSIyClozZRD5iQeWpzxp6Vvu +SNMMW+MuhUcMFPeNl5m =+V3r -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-mrRW++YML4eQ5E/Rldjt--