From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D32D308 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2015 02:18:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from nm6.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm6.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.212.165]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CDB2410A for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2015 02:18:31 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1437790711; bh=cJHIm64hjA1Ds4rI0x2J2gs3Jd4RhNaxsSyUb3m5Y8I=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From:Subject; b=bYWK40CKj1UkjlelF35Kd880aGfPE0jheigxnRPODGG/LmxXJiwHzaZxIx2JpUzJkdS/TKvdMQiF527iHwg6SUIAJVC7Mje4UKVzK/G0RzvLgxAV7YMfyyh4/FcCeFzQvej+qQrJlI9KsDksj2JKc5Ka1arRIeO8Dc/uc8eSxdfvbRuKjCSAktj4yQ4I4YW/n0ZVU0HFxCfEuL06Xon4isBPqSX1zmn8Ad9/1TMV7NHHylY23ucDzcY8c2m1Ukzw/7rSVvYmvFHqPLsCPPdJgCxSbATonYkNjyiSXGF1QGI+ZLIBOnq48zqpbvXOBu5k12qukQNgjbo4Ps7ImQncZg== Received: from [98.139.170.181] by nm6.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jul 2015 02:18:31 -0000 Received: from [98.139.211.193] by tm24.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jul 2015 02:18:30 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jul 2015 02:18:30 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 871378.15435.bm@smtp202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: FM_1fscVM1lFuo20l5o84HThhKgHgg32z9ZlrtC2GqvDAKr ZC9glOItu2eAS8afZ0SgHYXkc31bNJ4aQWyQiMUU95mbaJ69Zlcc2eQ1xvKd bUb0HOdtiF8mcG1BlM_9cB0qymCAORumgeo8Ws0l9B26.77rqjUJmxnWBnCX QfZi4wsGZHNUpWSV87kqdcoB44NcU4A7IrirVPShwQxPcsZnoe9NUlc3Mh8p dawT0R6cORp8X6nm1_mmv5ofrGKd8LsmJoW3PPj.GqK7ZJz9T7vQnSi4kI2f mjte5llxvfKctvmjND9800AZotbIyAYvtj5y2NCG5be2KJ9D20z6zwKiL0vD SE0OwE6dfgPXfiQrhGZDuulSs8BRGhol62vImpcqbsaFYlZ7jsgj1.csp_nX 6yyuPNYa5DtJ6Jzp5Sc0cU76EKIeO2KLwnTkfm95nYZXp4L0jNU2voMhR1Eu csRT4vODnGN1XNMJuxhsPPIkLDHIkji.6a5PzKOhGncVAKLHWnEdgINLbbFv cIMhBnlbSHLPyuYnzggdJAYrBpwe3zvTl7vO2HH0- X-Yahoo-SMTP: kMAkG6uswBCBwEfDAoIbXivsMA-- Message-ID: <1437790691.2111.3.camel@yahoo.com> From: gb To: Vincent Truong Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 14:18:11 +1200 In-Reply-To: References: <346D4CE0-E00D-4ABB-B131-EFA1416CB20C@me.com> <29363BE6-72A7-4D06-A974-C52BA12FD8BD@gmail.com> <55FFBC8F-A3C9-4109-89C7-AC359FBBD478@me.com> <4734381C-2000-4D9B-9099-DDE3D38D64A3@me.com> <0E15E07E-E21C-4541-869A-3C34CBA35774@gmail.com> <9AC88C7C-4BA4-4DF2-913F-9DC6874BD19D@me.com> <83982C1D-4FE6-4A5C-BC93-BFBD9756F3D2@gmail.com> <55B1FBCE.1080002@jonasschnelli.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.12.11 (3.12.11-1.fc21) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin, Perceptions, and Expectations X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 02:18:33 -0000 Validated - (seen on network) Settled/Cleared - 1 conf Finalised - 6 confs On Sat, 2015-07-25 at 00:37 +1000, Vincent Truong via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > "Fast transactions" > Fast transactions implies it is slower than Visa, and Visa is > 'instant' by comparison from the spender's POV. Bitcoin is still very > instant because wallets still send notifications/pings when > transactions are first seen, not when it goes into a block. We > shouldn't mislead people into thinking a transaction literally takes > 10 minutes to travel the globe. > > Maybe this feels like PR speak. But being too humble about Bitcoin's > attributes isn't a good idea either. > > If we're going to look at perception, image and expectations, perhaps > we can start to look at redefining some terminology too. Like > confirmations, which is an arbitrary concept. Where possible we should > describe it with finance terminology. > > "0 conf transaction" > 0 conf is the 'transaction' - just the act of making an exchange. It > doesn't imply safe and I believe using the word 'settle' in place of > confirmations will automatically click with merchants. > > "1st conf" > A 'confirmation' is a 'settlement'. If it is 'settled', it implies > final (except by court order), whereas confirmation usually means 'ah, > I've seen it come through'. I rarely hear any sales clerk call credit > card transactions confirmed. More often you will hear 'approved' > instead. Although 1st conf can be overtaken, so... > > "n confirmations" > This term can probably stay since I can't come up with a better word. > Settlements only happen once, putting a number next to it breaks the > meaning of the word. "Settled with 4 confirmations" seems pretty > clear. Alternatively I think instead of displaying a meaningless > number we ought to go by a percentage (the double spend improbability) > and go by 'confidence'. "Settled with 92% confidence." Or we can pick > an arbitrary number like 6 and use 'settling...' and 'settled' when > reached. > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev