From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 85A3C123D for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 09:35:18 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from omr-a007.mx.aol.com (omr-a007e.mx.aol.com [204.29.186.58]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B866419A for ; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 09:35:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mtaomg-aac02.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aac02.mx.aol.com [172.27.2.36]) by omr-a007.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id D83903800088; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 05:35:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-ada01c.mail.aol.com (core-ada01.mail.aol.com [172.27.0.1]) by mtaomg-aac02.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id A215C38000081; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 05:35:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 162.227.126.201 by webprd-a12.mail.aol.com (10.72.12.230) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 31 Aug 2015 05:35:15 -0400 Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 05:35:15 -0400 From: hurricanewarn1@aol.com To: nxtchg@hush.com, bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org Message-Id: <14f831c53d6-1c38-7667@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <20150831084538.399E0200EF@smtp.hushmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_35714_959834102.1441013715924" X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: JAS STD X-Originating-IP: [162.227.126.201] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1441013716; bh=Hvx9gFkRTkes5nh8eFvFXYSJMPsuJZ5aGP6y9GjVGoQ=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=zrFkmqTW+6yldXx2DhyH5u4hn9qJ89MNPFSeAWuyo8JqSqgFbAds5gaolyVo5FHK8 d+tETphnQiOlLbH/q50qyDbb8pZP9A2m10/DSYnvi+n9uYmY3k3jWJdBrM4KPe0G5j FyZthzURM6dpN6soVBJl1IU8ohMHoQR55OeCmPiE= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1b022455e41fd439c5 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=no version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Censorship X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 09:35:18 -0000 ------=_Part_35714_959834102.1441013715924 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I say de-centralized I mean it, all the things you listed are centralized. Reddit is actually a purely centralized system and just as unhealthy as the current bitcoin forum. We have the technology, I'm simply putting together the pieces that other people have already built. This forum will literally be uncontrollable in raw form, once it's unleashed it can't be stopped. It will exist on thousands of computers so it cannot be destroyed, it will not be centrally hosted. I expect users to create their own external software to parse the data, so people can centralize as much or as little as they want in their own 'sub-forums' built on this system. I will be releasing some very rudimentary external software/website to go along with this de-centralized system just so people can post and read what's posted, and will worry about the finer details at a later time. There will be various leaders who utilize this program and organize quality forums, but fundamentally the raw de-centralized system cannot be controlled, so people posting to it will always have a venue to speak without being censored. I actually started this project to create a journal of uncensored scientific research, but it didn't take long to realize this sort've thing is useful for pretty much everyone, so I'm rushing the basic release out. Then I will work on making my science journal 'sub-forum' software and everyone else can do whatever they want. -----Original Message----- From: NxtChg To: hurricanewarn1 ; bitcoin-dev Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2015 4:45 am Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Censorship >I am creating a de-centralized forum, and I mean truly decentralized as I nor anyone else will be able to control it. Zander is working on the same thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/AetheralResearch/ But it's actually quite difficult to make it truly censorship-resistant: both in solving the theymos factor and spam/abuse/overloading as an attack. >There is no doubt that the centralization and censorship of the Bitcoin community is massively inhibiting the advance of Bitcoin >and also the growth of the Bitcoin economy. We are scaring away intellectuals, businessman, and newbies that are just getting started. We have /r/bitcoinxt and so far it has been great. But we also need a regular forum. Roger Ver controls bitcoin.com, as I understand? https://bitcoin.com/forum/ would be nice. And it must be a real community, not "say whatever you want because free speech". We've seen how that turned out to be. Something like battle.net or Steam forums: heavily moderated, not for opinions, but for spam/noise/insults. Again, this needs leadership. Anyone can install a forum software, what is needed is an "official seal of approval" and regular presence of top XT people there. And a will to setup proper moderation. Then people will move. ------=_Part_35714_959834102.1441013715924 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
When I say de-centralized I mean it, all the things you listed are centralized. Reddit is actually a purely centralized system and just as unhealthy as the current bitcoin forum. We have the technology, I'm simply putting together the pieces that other people have already built. This forum will literally be uncontrollable in raw form, once it's unleashed it can't be stopped. It will exist on thousands of computers so it cannot be destroyed, it will not be centrally hosted.

I expect users to create their own external software to parse the data, so people can centralize as much or as little as they want in their own 'sub-forums' built on this system. I will be releasing some very rudimentary external software/website to go along with this de-centralized system just so people can post and read what's posted, and will worry about the finer details at a later time.

There will be various leaders who utilize this program and organize quality forums, but fundamentally the raw de-centralized system cannot be controlled, so people posting to it will always have a venue to speak without being censored.

I actually started this project to create a journal of uncensored scientific research, but it didn't take long to realize this sort've thing is useful for pretty much everyone, so I'm rushing the basic release out. Then I will work on making my science journal 'sub-forum' software and everyone else can do whatever they want.


-----Original Message-----
From: NxtChg <nxtchg@hush.com>
To: hurricanewarn1 <hurricanewarn1@aol.com>; bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2015 4:45 am
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Censorship


>I am creating a de-centralized forum, and I mean truly decentralized as I nor
anyone else will be able to control it.

Zander is working on the same thing:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AetheralResearch/

But it's actually quite difficult
to make it truly censorship-resistant: both in solving the theymos factor and
spam/abuse/overloading as an attack.


>There is no doubt that the
centralization and censorship of the Bitcoin community is massively inhibiting
the advance of Bitcoin 
>and also the growth of the Bitcoin economy. We are
scaring away intellectuals, businessman, and newbies that are just getting
started.

We have /r/bitcoinxt and so far it has been great. But we also need
a regular forum.

Roger Ver controls bitcoin.com, as I understand?
https://bitcoin.com/forum/ would be nice.

And it must be a real community,
not "say whatever you want because free speech". We've seen how that turned out
to be.

Something like battle.net or Steam forums: heavily moderated, not for
opinions, but for spam/noise/insults.

Again, this needs leadership. Anyone
can install a forum software, what is needed is an "official seal of approval"
and regular presence of top XT people there.

And a will to setup proper
moderation. Then people will move.
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