From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1WcvtY-0007sh-Lz for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 23 Apr 2014 12:03:20 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.198]) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76) id 1WcvtW-0001Va-C5 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 23 Apr 2014 12:03:20 +0000 Received: from mfilter19-d.gandi.net (mfilter19-d.gandi.net [217.70.178.147]) by relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B678FB8B1 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2014 14:03:11 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mfilter19-d.gandi.net Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.198]) by mfilter19-d.gandi.net (mfilter19-d.gandi.net [10.0.15.180]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NfgRZjM82Dyq for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2014 14:03:09 +0200 (CEST) X-Originating-IP: 178.50.66.79 Received: from [10.83.74.79] (ptra-178-50-66-79.mobistar.be [178.50.66.79]) (Authenticated sender: chris.dcosta@meek.io) by relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 01574FB8D1 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2014 14:03:02 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-70DF2A6B-8B5E-40F4-AC80-9B758EA24AC9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3A69904F-0A3D-42E9-9DE7-067874E710BB@bitsofproof.com> <5353ECDF.6090903@gmail.com> From: Chris D'Costa In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <171EB811-3911-401A-9500-B3444EE53EF7@meek.io> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 13:48:14 +0200 To: "bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11B651) X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 MIME_QP_LONG_LINE RAW: Quoted-printable line longer than 76 chars X-Headers-End: 1WcvtW-0001Va-C5 Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] "bits": Unit of account X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 12:03:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail-70DF2A6B-8B5E-40F4-AC80-9B758EA24AC9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a rather off-beat suggestion. Perhaps decimal was not satoshi's inten= tion. In old English money 1 guinea is 21 shillings. I wonder if 1 million guineas= is more or less the total number of bitcoins =3D 21 million shillings. Ther= e was also the notion of bits (two bob bits =3D 1 florin =3D 2 shillings). I= quite like the idea as it's absolutely not expected. Old English money is a funny mix of decimal and imperial (base12) measures b= ut may have some interesting properties, one of which would be to have multi= ple names for overlapping "layers" not just the 2 or 3 that has been mention= ed here and elsewhere. I wonder in the long run if this will not just naturally occur anyway. Regards Chris D'Costa Email: chris_dcosta@meek.io Sent from my iPhone > On 23 Apr 2014, at 11:56, Tamas Blummer wrote: >=20 > The problem is =C2=B5BTC that bit tries to solve.=20 >=20 > BTC, mBTC and =C2=B5BTC are just too similiar for enyone else than enginee= rs. The mixed use of them leads to misunderstanding.=20 > I think adoption would benefit of a single unit with easily remembered and= associated name that has no smaller than 1/100 fractions called satoshis. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Tam=C3=A1s Blummer > Founder, CEO > > http://bitsofproof.com >=20 >> On 23.04.2014, at 11:44, Danny Hamilton wrote:= >>=20 >> It seems to me that xbit is no more distinct or intuitive than =C2=B5bit.= In either case it's simply an arbitrary character in front of the word "bit= ". Of course, for the majority of the world familiar with SI, the =C2=B5 ac= tually adds additional meaning that is lost with the x. >>=20 >> Furthermore, given the multiple concerns voiced about the overuse of the w= ord "bit", =C2=B5BTC seems to solve the problem. >>=20 >> Since we are talking about how it would be displayed in software, we don'= t need to be concerned about how people will pronounce it, or what the nickn= ame will be. If most of the wallets start displaying amounts in =C2=B5BTC q= uantities, it will be obvious that a =C2=B5BTC is a different magnitude than= a BTC. Nobody is going to look at their 100,000 =C2=B5BTC balance and thin= k they have 100,000 BTC. People will immediately make the mental adjustment t= o the new order of magnitude even if they don't specifically know that =C2=B5= means micro, or that micro means 1e-6. >>=20 >> Nicknames will form organically (much like buck, fin, large, k, grand, an= d benny for U.S. currency), I've always been partial to milly (or millie) an= d mike (or micky) as nicknames for mBTC and =C2=B5BTC. I've personally used= those when speaking with people, and they seem to catch on pretty quickly. >>=20 >> As has already been mentioned, you're going to be hard pressed to find so= ftware that denotes U.S. balances in "bucks". There isn't any good reason t= o be coding a nickname like "bit", "xbit", or "mike" into wallet software. >>=20 >> - Danny Hamilton >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Aaron Axvig wrote: >>> That piece of horse equipment is called a bit in the US too. But the po= int >>> stands: most people don't use "bit" on a daily basis other than referrin= g to >>> "a little bit of ." >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Wladimir [mailto:laanwj@gmail.com] >>> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2014 11:27 AM >>> To: Chris Pacia >>> Cc: Bitcoin Dev >>> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] "bits": Unit of account >>>=20 >>> On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Chris Pacia wrote: >>> > The term bit is really only overloaded for those who are techy. 95% of= >>> > the population never uses the term bit in their daily lives and I >>> > doubt most could even name one use of the term. >>> > Plus bit used to be a unit of money way back when, so this is kind of >>> > reclaiming it. I think it's a great fit. >>>=20 >>> That's a very anglocentric way of thinking. >>>=20 >>> Here in the Netherlands, a "bit" is something you put in a horses's mout= h. >>> It's also used as imported word (in the information sense). >>> We've never used the term for money. >>>=20 >>> Wladimir >>>=20 >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- >>> -- >>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book "Graph Databases" is= the >>> definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written b= y >>> three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now availabl= e. >>> Download your free book today! >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bitcoin-development mailing list >>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >>>=20 >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ >>> Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform >>> Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software >>> Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready >>> Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bitcoin-development mailing list >>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >>=20 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- >> Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform >> Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software >> Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready >> Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform__________________________________________= _____ >> Bitcoin-development mailing list >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- > Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform > Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software > Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready > Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform > http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development --Apple-Mail-70DF2A6B-8B5E-40F4-AC80-9B758EA24AC9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have a rather off-beat= suggestion. Perhaps decimal was not satoshi's intention.

In old English money 1 guinea= is 21 shillings. I wonder if 1 million guineas is more or less the total nu= mber of bitcoins =3D 21 million shillings. There was also the notion of bits= (two bob bits =3D 1 florin =3D 2 shillings). I quite like the idea as it's a= bsolutely not expected.

Old English money is a funny mix of decimal and imperial (base= 12) measures but may have some interesting properties, one of which would be= to have multiple names for overlapping "layers" not just the 2 or 3 that ha= s been mentioned here and elsewhere.

I wonder in the long run if this will not just n= aturally occur anyway.

Regards
Chris D'Costa
<= span style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 25= 5, 255, 0);">

Sent from my= iPhone

= On 23 Apr 2014, at 11:56, Tamas Blummer <tamas@bitsofproof.com> wrote:

The problem is =C2=B5= BTC that bit tries to solve. 

BTC, mBTC and =C2= =B5BTC are just too similiar for enyone else than engineers. The mixed use o= f them leads to misunderstanding. 
I think adoption would ben= efit of a single unit with easily remembered and associated name that has no= smaller than 1/100 fractions called satoshis.

Regards,

Tam=C3=A1s Blummer
Founder, CEO
<email.png>
http://bit= sofproof.com

On 23.04.2014, at 11:44, Danny Hamilton <danny.hamilton@gmail.com> wrote:

It seems to me that xbit is no more distinct or intuit= ive than =C2=B5bit. In either case it's simply an arbitrary character in fro= nt of the word "bit".  Of course, for the majority of the world familia= r with SI, the =C2=B5 actually adds additional meaning that is lost with the= x.

Furthermore, given the multiple concerns voiced about the ove= ruse of the word "bit", =C2=B5BTC seems to solve the problem.

S= ince we are talking about how it would be displayed in software, we don't ne= ed to be concerned about how people will pronounce it, or what the nickname w= ill be.  If most of the wallets start displaying amounts in =C2=B5BTC q= uantities, it will be obvious that a =C2=B5BTC is a different magnitude than= a BTC.  Nobody is going to look at their 100,000 =C2=B5BTC balance and= think they have 100,000 BTC. People will immediately make the mental adjust= ment to the new order of magnitude even if they don't specifically know that= =C2=B5 means micro, or that micro means 1e-6.

Nicknames will form organically (much like buck, fin, large, k, gr= and, and benny for U.S. currency), I've always been partial to milly (or mil= lie) and mike (or micky) as nicknames for mBTC and =C2=B5BTC.  I've per= sonally used those when speaking with people, and they seem to catch on pret= ty quickly.

As has already been mentioned, you're going to be hard pressed to f= ind software that denotes U.S. balances in "bucks".  There isn't any go= od reason to be coding a nickname like "bit", "xbit", or "mike" into wallet s= oftware.

-  Danny Hamilton

On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Aaron Axvig <aar= on@axvigs.com> wrote:
That piece of horse equipment is called a bit i= n the US too.  But the point
stands: most people don't use "bit" on a daily basis other than referring to=
"a little bit of <something>."

-----Original Message-----
From: Wladimir [mailto:laanwj@gmail.com<= /a>]
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2014 11:27 AM
To: Chris Pacia
Cc: Bitcoin Dev
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] "bits": Unit of account

On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Chris Pacia <ctpacia@gmail.com> wrote:
> The term bit is really only overloaded for those who are techy. 95% of<= br> > the population never uses the term bit in their daily lives and I
> doubt most could even name one use of the term.
> Plus bit used to be a unit of money way back when, so this is kind of > reclaiming it. I think it's a great fit.

That's a very anglocentric way of thinking.

Here in the Netherlands, a "bit" is something you put in a horses's mouth. It's also used as imported word (in the information sense).
We've never used the term for money.

Wladimir

----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book "Graph Databases" is the=
definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
http://p.sf.net/sf= u/NeoTech
_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-develop= ment@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-deve= lopment

---------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------
Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform
Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready
Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
http://p.sf.ne= t/sfu/ExoPlatform
______________________________= _________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-develop= ment@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-deve= lopment

----------------------------------------------------------------------------= --
Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform
Build your E= nterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
Java Based Open Source Intr= anet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready
Get Started Now And Turn Your Intr= anet Into A Collaboration Platform
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Exo= Platform_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-devel= opment mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sour= ceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
-----------------------------------------------= -------------------------------
Start Your Social Network To= day - Download eXo Platform
Build your Enterprise Intranet w= ith eXo Platform Software
Java Based Open Source Intranet - S= ocial, Extensible, Cloud Ready
Get Started Now And Turn Your= Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform
_______________________________________________
= Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net<= /a>
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