From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Delivery-date: Fri, 02 May 2025 04:18:37 -0700 Received: from mail-qk1-f187.google.com ([209.85.222.187]) by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1uAoPc-0001cx-Bk for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Fri, 02 May 2025 04:18:37 -0700 Received: by mail-qk1-f187.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7c5c77aff78sf609384185a.0 for ; Fri, 02 May 2025 04:18:36 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1746184710; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=BNGtAAe2zW0D89TAfS4Xo4yRbEo4y7gUnFN4MJOBjkEf+se7iLOHPZCUwobMw3Dwww SXY0UdeiBp8pLCfx9emwNETmK+ePdMSBurSeTXKPsqwyhSRFSV/h4raTRRS+cJ6CPfU4 BU1J9ckW+tHENvYVthlD++8Gy1hmr2t2bFb5cQld1crhbvH5ma5nxx4TBOLf+zqcdJVd sgW9vnK6HCKmNP45jHmMZBYaJZqKb8oZlMoPcJcIyepVLge2v6VJHBCO+Yo8//VYCH0M KMpY0LKEKqoXCRgAYhXPuzMZHUaH1ks6equGqzuKC5O9frbgVRVK5fcu6wDMg3Gs7YvQ vpfg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:to:references:message-id :content-transfer-encoding:cc:date:in-reply-to:from:subject :mime-version:feedback-id:sender:dkim-signature; bh=OVkrdBF7G4CwFoKRNtF1R3ccGYnHHJujqxFx+anIGBY=; fh=h5/K0tRLJLE1L4aK8ijQHKpyisjDFwYZRMqIL3iQQbM=; b=hhdfop7Z1hrlJkvrPfk+AjiXpt2VceKIqj5LeI7T9C1AqSSFS4vuBgI0IphDisoebe PT9UvqEZrjLRR4xTp832Mcq4ev6I2oBI4Dn+2jgRf80lyeJeCKkT2XrRLvG4HOfv1ofy eq5TNAxPN/L+NSbdYTt+7mk9pwR+arh3z/kQO9AYxjahomBJE/pL3xUVIQVv3JtFkOdB qSdbIfuOleprjROsHKmhGJaDNdBobWqvBZrn8zFOD6wu7nldOLAcDnHnYq9z6ZZVmpy8 PiXoyvybsxTke41N19QNfwqr/Y6ZdNyi3s8n2x22Nyib3H61Vn2iQ3Y6e2T4BT3hB6tC rQ3g==; darn=gnusha.org ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@sprovoost.nl header.s=fm1 header.b=ga9uz9ye; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=DcRwVoA4; spf=pass (google.com: domain of sjors@sprovoost.nl designates 202.12.124.155 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=sjors@sprovoost.nl; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=sprovoost.nl DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1746184710; x=1746789510; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:to:references:message-id :content-transfer-encoding:cc:date:in-reply-to:from:subject :mime-version:feedback-id:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=OVkrdBF7G4CwFoKRNtF1R3ccGYnHHJujqxFx+anIGBY=; b=DQZcfUx+39rZX5oNYQMKxStz+PDvJIAXwYvzh1sQvRlX4m0i6F3eZ/jS/JHQpNp5y9 cj7T/9kySliTMfXLfB0L+dPS8FNa7mhEWZNWSaxvUfd0qcLokSlojisWynLtcgFZkb86 ZB+HXA/CT+BvOSRzdr6V4quKumeiiA3DHMUtSHAGtEmxij1CHf81YNz64IdgV2GFL6Cd LfS0dfTaXgFtBq3PeLSe7pt47aR6VakKuSi+c9URikrPWXTzakEBxhJDqqRKB8ZzamVu Rwi7Qyvb6H5ks4d95bK9zsxAcyXwj/LdiQDYdd8a3Ax2btDHyTrzvCQffgnSD18gkPvk hSIw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1746184710; x=1746789510; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:to:references:message-id :content-transfer-encoding:cc:date:in-reply-to:from:subject :mime-version:feedback-id:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state:sender:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=OVkrdBF7G4CwFoKRNtF1R3ccGYnHHJujqxFx+anIGBY=; b=WYCH2ohyUwINbP19ljT3chr1EyXkblYaJvQKxGqdPecHreFUzj0pAeP5fOE6He7ZIv 7D1Ya5QLG4iWBiMYqkb8ab58CsYoEc5ZU4JM2v+aKVsmOEfz+yf+KNaXRfb+Olykydri XsBIvTiSPUQZsU42fQRV3yIjbfsrxea6vX3AvC1tGdMX+sOK7r5WiPbrbgGfxqgk6S/Z xHg2Fum+otKkagH43d8Mokor4In9cDkyja4+WErEp7JtvkniP81jy0eKCgteWETuC5LR 8vKZ4W5PcF1g8lbCaxiPhgPQmruY0Mu5ytqfq0X/UifvXVypfiuhJb8OST4ur/oVUDgH cjMg== Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCXEEQXrK5gDqYSaeg3osr0YuB3rZNOQQGGsYBS56txIO55HRU2FbDznfefWjPqxsgVcTYgPSCa7HR3j@gnusha.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz6g/+yed0elJkaq444kdrz3IFEt6mKv0bAEbFxp3rPnboNuSdT 4KUzyYFz0oVwjlD3LLIxMAll9aMPeBcxX60P2qyXZuG+0BOF36Tu X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHTXwiiJlez+imxhQjp5NaWWfyGnoby7b1WvrIDWXmpfwhuvPd3MCI/bgXAcU/RLde5KkRMjA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:268a:b0:6e8:fbe2:2db0 with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6f5155efb65mr42044256d6.30.1746184709997; Fri, 02 May 2025 04:18:29 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h=AVT/gBHwciyA0QSJrgrXSLOMd5v5O3fZotlmrduK58wWVkJN3g== Received: by 2002:a05:6214:2122:b0:6f5:f6c:a692 with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6f50f6ca6c9ls4359666d6.1.-pod-prod-04-us; Fri, 02 May 2025 04:18:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:17ab:b0:7c5:4c6d:7fa5 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7cad5bbaab9mr374140485a.48.1746184707225; Fri, 02 May 2025 04:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 2002:a05:620a:3602:b0:7b6:d2da:e6ae with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7cad5cae937ms85a; Fri, 2 May 2025 04:17:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:2297:b0:477:e07:4c5d with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-48c31737672mr42495551cf.19.1746184621312; Fri, 02 May 2025 04:17:01 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1746184621; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=AJdfkRlILx+5mwuYjTFBelwmJ41/GL9Uop37w2kfEmQonWOedqpnweXgiQkiaLLiJp OuNzv4s/qNwGnmdTudKgDK2kIyyiDBGqrPBgxPAl9tJgL23PLWsnakMcwUDqHG1G48ju +InnIZkcyBv+HxX35+M+RXj8xcppjDdl6/vTt5jDU986M5GugprSRwsxz5CDEasR7wWx /cLrsKo5SJIAdRjo1BdJ0XEntqVbrCaw8WtqjDwUryaMCi3LTn/hp/4n4cWnESJHgoIH GW+ZPF2iuJQfwVWHanWHcpiDzRCzDixs6cCie4dqvZKRGltOiUL9mPx9WAECS9pjV2wX 0gng== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:feedback-id:dkim-signature :dkim-signature; bh=hXT2/OVVpD3n5R/RaBWNzzBpnP5X8PESq230P4QcrfM=; fh=ZoFM7KQva683kZQTf+NRGbaAKMndP628n/Gh1+zrhKk=; b=Ca3TjHW5ged0gV6FLJIDopLAtMMZO/Zp7q2plWLJZ6NC2hJ1OYD5Qp5brpx1UCrgyk tfTZBdpsTo+OZrbJRs+cI1mcWHiHATMOC7yui34RUwATREh4zjRy7mHJmMHLy1x2z9y4 Jgqbed5VPpsJUEoeCJ4qONH6yUNnYRjzX7M5QIx28B1R+tTlGa6Z7xG2Vm4eL/nsiQWX 85/E7g54rp3SzBc0FW4jPZOIYsIyebzudVETGYFxD1wRKIhH2nAJfHhu9/CXs+iYM9cw vk9VMEb5n3opHBlARMXuhvDAPEXG/2VK75S5DWf5AMrd8qGWSCTaY/M3D936McEHfxWB pelw==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@sprovoost.nl header.s=fm1 header.b=ga9uz9ye; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=DcRwVoA4; spf=pass (google.com: domain of sjors@sprovoost.nl designates 202.12.124.155 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=sjors@sprovoost.nl; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=sprovoost.nl Received: from fhigh-b4-smtp.messagingengine.com (fhigh-b4-smtp.messagingengine.com. [202.12.124.155]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d75a77b69052e-48b97e62a73si1013431cf.3.2025.05.02.04.17.00 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 02 May 2025 04:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of sjors@sprovoost.nl designates 202.12.124.155 as permitted sender) client-ip=202.12.124.155; Received: from phl-compute-04.internal (phl-compute-04.phl.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailfhigh.stl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 528E425401BE; Fri, 2 May 2025 07:17:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phl-mailfrontend-02 ([10.202.2.163]) by phl-compute-04.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 02 May 2025 07:17:00 -0400 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefvddrtddtgddvjedvfedtucetufdoteggodetrf dotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggv pdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpih gvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurheptggguffhjgffvefgkfhfvffosehtqhhmtdhh tdejnecuhfhrohhmpefujhhorhhsucfrrhhovhhoohhsthcuoehsjhhorhhssehsphhroh hvohhoshhtrdhnlheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnheptdegfeelveevveekuefhjedtveej uefgkedtgeeggedvffetfffhieevhedujefhnecuffhomhgrihhnpehsthgrtghkvgigtg hhrghnghgvrdgtohhmnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghi lhhfrhhomhepshhjohhrshesshhprhhovhhoohhsthdrnhhlpdhnsggprhgtphhtthhope dvpdhmohguvgepshhmthhpohhuthdprhgtphhtthhopegsihhttghoihhnuggvvhesghho ohhglhgvghhrohhuphhsrdgtohhmpdhrtghpthhtohepphgrnhgurggtuhhtvgduvdefge ehieejkeesghhmrghilhdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: ie5e042df:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri, 2 May 2025 07:16:59 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.500.181.1.5\)) Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Relax OP_RETURN standardness restrictions From: Sjors Provoost In-Reply-To: <68cdce0e-9030-4a6b-92a4-d48d05be3e80n@googlegroups.com> Date: Fri, 2 May 2025 13:16:47 +0200 Cc: PandaCute Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1B78AC90-E698-421F-AECD-32DBCDD8669A@sprovoost.nl> References: <68cdce0e-9030-4a6b-92a4-d48d05be3e80n@googlegroups.com> To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.500.181.1.5) X-Original-Sender: sjors@sprovoost.nl X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@sprovoost.nl header.s=fm1 header.b=ga9uz9ye; dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=DcRwVoA4; spf=pass (google.com: domain of sjors@sprovoost.nl designates 202.12.124.155 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=sjors@sprovoost.nl; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=sprovoost.nl Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Op 2 mei 2025, om 02:14 heeft PandaCute het v= olgende geschreven: > It feels weird=E2=80=94like some sort of attack or a bribe. One protocol = is mentioned that would benefit from this change, and then an investor ACKs= the PR.=20 This is a misunderstanding. One that probably should have been better commu= nicated, because I can see why it creates a bad impression. The Citrea protocol does not benefit from this change at all! We're just as= king them nicely to please use OP_RETURN and not bloat the UTXO set. The cost difference between OP_RETURN and fake public keys is negligible fo= r them. I try to explain this in more detail here: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/126208/why-would-anyone-use-op-= return-over-inscriptions-aside-from-fees We can only hope they do so, but why would they? They already wrote the co= de, and now they have to spend engineering hours to deviate from their whit= epaper design. For what, just to be a good citizen? Their developers are ge= tting attacked for agreeing with this change. And since the proposal is con= troversial, they can't even count on this actually going through in time fo= r whenever they want to launch. As someone once said: we don't have the cards here. - Sjors --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= 1B78AC90-E698-421F-AECD-32DBCDD8669A%40sprovoost.nl.