From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1UyS3F-0005D1-AJ for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 14 Jul 2013 19:33:45 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from [162.213.26.82] (helo=zinan.dashjr.org) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) id 1UyS3C-0006BA-JX for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 14 Jul 2013 19:33:45 +0000 Received: from ishibashi.localnet (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49]) (Authenticated sender: luke-jr) by zinan.dashjr.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 515DE27A2965; Sun, 14 Jul 2013 19:33:31 +0000 (UTC) From: "Luke-Jr" To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 19:33:06 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (Linux/3.7.10-gentoo; KDE/4.10.4; x86_64; ; ) References: <20130705140140.GA23949@netbook.cypherspace.org> In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key-Fingerprint: E463 A93F 5F31 17EE DE6C 7316 BD02 9424 21F4 889F X-PGP-Key-ID: BD02942421F4889F X-PGP-Keyserver: hkp://pgp.mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1459527.6UcipQMx2l"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201307141933.13754.luke@dashjr.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 1.0 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS X-Headers-End: 1UyS3C-0006BA-JX Cc: Jorge Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] libzerocoin released, what about a zerocoin-only alt-coin with either-or mining X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 19:33:45 -0000 --nextPart1459527.6UcipQMx2l Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sunday, July 14, 2013 7:22:10 PM John Dillon wrote: > > Merged mining is not mining the coin for free. The total reward (ie > > btc + frc + nmc + dvc) should tend to equal the mining costs. But the > > value comes from demand, not costs. So if people demand it more it > > price will rise no matter how is mined. And if the price rises it will > > make sense to spend more on mining. >=20 > Merge mining is very much mining a coin for free. Ask not what the total > reward is, ask that the marginal cost of merge mining an additional coin > is. But the total reward is what mining will tend toward equalizing in costs. In any case, the cryptocurrencies are neutral to cost of mining, or perhaps= =20 even benefit from it being as cheap as possible: if it's cheaper to mine, y= ou=20 can get an even higher difficulty/security out of it. > The issue is that unless there is a cost to mining a *invalid* block > the merge mined coin has little protection from miners who mine invalid > blocks, either maliciously or through negligence. If the coin isn't worth > much, either because it's market value is low or the worth is negative to > the malicious miner, your theories of value have nothing to do with the > issue. Invalid blocks are rejected by validating clients in all circumstances. I suspect you may mean a block that doesn't include transactions you want=20 confirmed. In that case, you must not be paying sufficient fees for the min= er=20 to consider it worth their time, or must be doing something the miner=20 considers fundamentally objectionable (in which case they won't be satisfie= d=20 by any fee). But these miners, unless they are able to acquire over 50% of = the=20 hashrate (in which case the cryptocoin is compromised), are not the only on= es=20 mining blocks, and if another miner accepts your transactions there is no=20 issue. 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