From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1VZ47v-0003GX-EY for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 19:29:55 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of petertodd.org designates 62.13.149.77 as permitted sender) client-ip=62.13.149.77; envelope-from=pete@petertodd.org; helo=outmail149077.authsmtp.com; Received: from outmail149077.authsmtp.com ([62.13.149.77]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) id 1VZ47u-00045T-8l for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 19:29:55 +0000 Received: from mail-c237.authsmtp.com (mail-c237.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.237]) by punt7.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id r9NJTmMs019313; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 20:29:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from petertodd.org (petertodd.org [174.129.28.249]) (authenticated bits=128) by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id r9NJTeGD025612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 23 Oct 2013 20:29:43 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 15:29:40 -0400 From: Peter Todd To: Ron Message-ID: <20131023192940.GA31497@petertodd.org> References: <1382540527.4044.YahooMailNeo@web124501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1382540527.4044.YahooMailNeo@web124501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Server-Quench: 7810ccc2-3c19-11e3-94fa-002590a135d3 X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at: http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR aAdMdAEUF1YAAgsB AmUbWVReUlR7XWA7 ag1VcwRfa1RMVxto VEFWR1pVCwQmQxV/ fHpLJW1ydQBAeXw+ ZERmXHMVW0x7dRUu EUxJFj4HbHphaTUc TUlcIVJJcANIexZF O1F8UScOLwdSbGoL NQ4vNDcwO3BTJTpY RgYVKF8UXXNDVBQ9 WxsFHDNnFkoJSi86 NBFuK0VUFU0NL0w2 NUppQ18RNxsDaEVF HkRVBCIRLl8NDzAm BA9TV0oTVnc1 X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1024:706 X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255) X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 174.129.28.249/587 X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own anti-virus system. X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: petertodd.org] X-Headers-End: 1VZ47u-00045T-8l Cc: "bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] "Bitcoin codebase is actually really simple and readable." X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 19:29:55 -0000 --k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 08:02:07AM -0700, Ron wrote: > I feel that I must respond to the statements that=20 > 1. > the Bitcoin codebase is actually really > simple and readable.=20 >=20 > 2. > However remember that the implications of that > codebase are anything but simple; there's lots of reasons to think > Satoshi himself didn't understand Bitcoin all that well, even by the > time he left the project. >=20 > On point one: if it was/is so readable, why hasn't it been documented bet= ter, if at all?=20 > Why haven't the obscure names of important items been globally searched a= nd replaced? > Why are there still mixed formatting "styles" still in the code. I think = it is the fear that C++=20 > is so brittle, that one change may bring the whole house of cards down. The nature of Bitcoin is that in any language one change could accidentally bring the whole house of cards down. Also the time and effort it takes to review changes for maliciously or accidentally added exploits. > I feel that it is the language (C++) that is hindering the expression of = ideas in the code. > This goes to your point two about Satoshi's understanding. I think just t= he opposite: > that he knew what he wanted but that C++ hindered him in expressing and i= mplementing it. > I think that if anything, C++ was what Satoshi "didn't understand all tha= t well". >=20 > But then who does understand C++, really? See > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.lang.lisp/7xCvdzijzgU/4xCFzLc3= d5EJ=20 > and the quote: > Whenever I solve a difficult problem with C++, I feel like I=E2=80=99ve w= on a bar fight. =E2=80=94 Michael Fogus >=20 > I don't think readability is attainable easily in C++. It requires intent= ionally writing so that=20 > others may understand your code. How many programmers have ever done that= ? And this=20 > is like swimming upstream in C++, where things are designed to be hidden!= =20 I'm making the statement that "the Bitcoin codebase is actually really simple and readable." based on personal experience: for what the reference client does - solve a previously thought unsolvable problem in cryptography - the code is simple and readable. (try reading the OpenSSL source-code sometime as a comparison) My experience has consistently been that understanding what the code does is by far the easiest part of understanding Bitcoin; understanding what the effect of what the code does in terms of the system as a whole is at least another one or two orders of magnitude more difficult. --=20 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org 0000000000000000c9e44ec3cb95d6ea51b7e8d29901be451ce3a2bd7b0ed8ae --k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJSaCOkAAoJEBmcgzuo5/CFqJwIALZJ9YPmlps7ipTqSYvKOAGm BCYiWKG918RKmZbexI3bhkisO4Vd1WtsGVTMljza5MlqpoYweVRXtOweEMxEaez3 sNyeUBRJytoJ7mnz06JeYa4l0wtgQMPCuNbfwxh0d18i6TVQRXpGKnCAbi3YVez2 pgGpGJupRLlsYwLHL5yjYfhXITVdSdthOoxGeTXQ7GrhPxBaTQqiSZCNAQEFMZVy faSlFlM9vGikEv73LTKFd5jntZWR0xUYUZWjR0c0p3Q0rnsW4S9zqYOdoNF7CVcW Yuh8Tq8Y3gdhjAfIxlsPmP5bll5vXbwCSzHRWA8GHgqBGLLN9D08kUv7FOx1wwE= =NG+T -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --k1lZvvs/B4yU6o8G--