From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1VnoEW-00053d-F4 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 03 Dec 2013 11:33:40 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of petertodd.org designates 62.13.149.78 as permitted sender) client-ip=62.13.149.78; envelope-from=pete@petertodd.org; helo=outmail149078.authsmtp.net; Received: from outmail149078.authsmtp.net ([62.13.149.78]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) id 1VnoEV-0005PF-Ct for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 03 Dec 2013 11:33:40 +0000 Received: from mail-c237.authsmtp.com (mail-c237.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.237]) by punt8.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id rB3BXV7t010512; Tue, 3 Dec 2013 11:33:31 GMT Received: from tilt (ge-19-102-21.service.infuturo.it [151.19.102.21]) (authenticated bits=128) by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id rB3BXO2k062835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Dec 2013 11:33:27 GMT Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 06:33:21 -0500 From: Peter Todd To: Drak Message-ID: <20131203113321.GB12623@tilt> References: <5E4597E4-C1C7-4536-8CF0-82EDD7715DAB@plan99.net> <39921E12-B411-4430-9D56-04F53906B109@plan99.net> <20131203110354.GA6513@tilt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="zx4FCpZtqtKETZ7O" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Server-Quench: bad239eb-5c0e-11e3-94fa-002590a135d3 X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at: http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR aQdMdgEUHFAXAgsB AmUbWlVeU157W2s7 ag9QcwRUfEtOXRto UVdMSlVNFUsqcx9z bmEcCRl0dQ1FfTBx Z0VqVj4JDRB4dk8o EFNRRm1TeGZhPWMC WUQOJh5UcAFPdx8U a1N6AHBDAzANdhES HhM4ODE3eDlSNilR RRkIIFQOdA4lGjk1 WxEEEn0hEEAeDyw1 I1QdEmBUF0IQP0Mu KjMA X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1024:706 X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255) X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 151.19.102.21/587 X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own anti-virus system. X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: petertodd.org] X-Headers-End: 1VnoEV-0005PF-Ct Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Floating fees and SPV clients X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2013 11:33:40 -0000 --zx4FCpZtqtKETZ7O Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Dec 03, 2013 at 11:09:51AM +0000, Drak wrote: > On 3 December 2013 11:03, Peter Todd wrote: >=20 > > UI once both are implemented is to not show anything in the default > > case, and explain to the user why they have to pay extra in the unusual > > case where they are spending a whole bunch of dust. >=20 >=20 > Yes, that's the other problem with a merchant setting a fee - they have no > idea how large the transaction might be. If you spend a bunch of dust the > fee could be 2 or 3x the expected fee. Then you might get merchants > including higher fees by default to account for this. That means we end up > paying more per kb over time. Right, which is solved by requiring a fee-per-kb, and only allowing up to a certain amount to be deducted from the amount paid to pay that total fee. But really, we're better off leaving fees visible to the user in the first place: they're how Bitcoin works and it's not going to change. (was just talking to Taylor from Hive Wallet about that in person actually) --=20 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org 000000000000000f9102d27cfd61ea9e8bb324593593ca3ce6ba53153ff251b3 --zx4FCpZtqtKETZ7O Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQEbBAEBCAAGBQJSncGBAAoJECSBQD2l8JH767oH92FEzkuF5M3h5J+Wn/uuZaQX bbUpbptXpqBOC6jx5LgExVSKUUGzuK5Kp7dDjch05SyLjjkJH58v4BLR8HVA5a1o 4EQaXOF+bj8hxp5cmCimEQGxk1ljG7Oj+PZf+sdFRwfzA0uZpChXJC1ipRmGwHz6 saxMpQ+E/idgSVRAqKlXaodYBUPgOoA+0HFGWUIlFuFuHf2z2Qo7B/C9fPHtbKB8 akDVSRNdYSJK3lU0f1UjIhgt+AIBZZ/XZ8iKca06XagISsDqrLLJ3n91lxD81pdR g0oulqL/4NCKmVC9oz+AubQ/qq3cr6jo2kj8+rseOdJPngSRfIU0kr/X2xJLew== =/eDS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --zx4FCpZtqtKETZ7O--