From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1WSZ6A-0006Fk-6O for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 25 Mar 2014 21:41:30 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from nl.grid.coop ([50.7.166.116]) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) id 1WSZ65-0000LG-I3 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 25 Mar 2014 21:41:30 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 1000) by nl.grid.coop with local; Tue, 25 Mar 2014 16:41:17 -0500 id 000000000006A343.000000005331F7FD.000043F7 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 16:41:17 -0500 From: Troy Benjegerdes To: Peter Todd Message-ID: <20140325214117.GY3180@nl.grid.coop> References: <20140322150836.GG3180@nl.grid.coop> <20140322190825.GB6047@savin> <532DE7E6.4050304@monetize.io> <20140325122851.GA9818@savin> <20140325134918.GB7929@savin> <5331C49B.2000709@gmail.com> <9e0d85b1-a9a3-4198-b048-63359e871eb1@email.android.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9e0d85b1-a9a3-4198-b048-63359e871eb1@email.android.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -0.4 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain X-Headers-End: 1WSZ65-0000LG-I3 Cc: "bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 21:41:30 -0000 Peter, I think you and I both know there is WAAYY to much MONEY to be taken from naive end-users by the companies that employ people who call your concerns FUD. And for everyone else, I want to apologize in advance for anything I might happen to say that might be abrasive, arrogant, angry, or 'in need of moderation'. So for those who do not wish to hear or read such things, delete my message now. =================== disclaimer: strong language follows =================== What the fuck Groupthink? committee for GROUPTHINKPROFIT? I'd rather have Peter Todd calling some developers idiots on the list than some fucking idiots who get paid way to fucking much calling 'end-users' stupid for believing MtGox. Hell, I was one of these idiots that fell for a marketing scam by a company that had a good story. But here is the damn point. The Excecutive who was whining about how his devs won't show up should probably consider hiring people who make VOCAL points on the mailing list. Or maybe he should consider that his developers might know his business model is shit and if they DID say something, it would be CLEAR to the world that only an idiot would use their companies services, and kill the company. Would you rather hear of vulnerabilities and scaling limits on bitcoin-development, or would you rather hear about them by a chorus of "They got hacked, their code must suck", but AFTER the fact. It seems to be an unfortunate fact of life that sleazy people take a shitload of money from nice people. Moderate Peter and I into oblivion at your own risk. Wouldn't you rather have us pointing out obvious flaws than ignoring shit? ... But just remember, your employers probably make more money by ignoring shit.... On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 03:47:15PM -0400, Peter Todd wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > OK, deal. You guys stop calling my concerns FUD, accusing me of having ulterior motives, etc. and I'll pay the same respect to you. > > > On 25 March 2014 14:13:36 GMT-04:00, slush wrote: > >I fully agree, please keep friendly environment on this list. Btw I > >also > >met people who were making fun about Peter's reactions on bitcoin-dev. > > > >slush > > > > > >On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 7:02 PM, Alan Reiner > >wrote: > > > >> I would echo the need for some kind of moderation. > >> > >> I believe Peter Todd is an extremely intelligent individual, who has > >a > >> lot to offer the Bitcoin community. He has a firm grasp of a lot of > >> really deep Bitcoin concepts and his *technical* insight is generally > >> positive. Technically. But the way he communicates on this list is > >> *extremely* corrosive and breeds hostility. It makes it a scary > >place > >> to discuss things, with frequent, public ridicule of everything > >posted. > >> > >> I agree that I would rather have a friendly environment to discuss > >> technicals, even if it means losing additional technical insight. > >> People who would explicitly insult other contributors intelligence > >and > >> character on a public list should be subject to some kind of negative > >> reinforcement. Maybe there's solutions other than outright banning. > >> > >> -Alan > >> > >> > >> > >> On 03/25/2014 01:37 PM, Jeff Garzik wrote: > >> > On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Peter Todd > >wrote: > >> >> For someone with 'Chief Scientist' as their job title, I'm > >surprised you > >> >> think so little of hard evidence and so much of idol worshipping. > >> > Peter, take this unprofessional, personal crap off-list. > >> > > >> > Mike's anecdote of hostility is not an isolated one. Just today, a > >> > bitcore developer commented on "Peter Todd's ..apocalyptic vision > >> > and... negative view on bitcoin" which turned off some other > >> > developers from participating more interactively. > >> > > >> > As I commented on IRC, open source projects are no strangers to > >people > >> > who simultaneously (a) make useful contributions and (b) turn > >> > potential contributors away with an abrasive or hostile attitude > >> > toward others. It's an unsolved problem in OSS, that I saw for 15+ > >> > years in the Linux kernel community. > >> > > >> > For this list, as Mike suggested on IRC, introducing an openly > >stated > >> > moderation policy may be the one route. > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book > >> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and > >their > >> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, > >> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Bitcoin-development mailing list > >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > >> > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book > >"Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and > >their > >applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, > >this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! > >http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Bitcoin-development mailing list > >Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: APG v1.0.9 > > iQFQBAEBCAA6BQJTMd1DMxxQZXRlciBUb2RkIChsb3cgc2VjdXJpdHkga2V5KSA8 > cGV0ZUBwZXRlcnRvZGQub3JnPgAKCRAZnIM7qOfwhb89B/98Tb0Xncho+1cbja1K > R9xYOKPhWU5EIuPr7zbpuQxufuM8hZsyFSo/ptnQnJ8EAJ2GvUUEnE2vDDjvqqJm > vy5URtOwKc6ztBDrjtWToKCgBwpJTektWrJMu2FQaO5CV/4sHhVM4By8BoDvCNLt > xeN7BccjvlDZ+2ggRaYt4P/QKctEyt9qZrdDmIsNxUa+bLzplHoqdoQMjQ2CUcUA > T+/Lq7MH+vROJXqx7d3JSsZAQ59evQDyorvCrxNgfVbB7j10t1zr5r5viWUEDtZ5 > /9DAP92vpSCokmKWfSlysHbC4KEqWglWka7aSBLXmAVrJeFxJRojsLQbCKUUFrG0 > IigO > =91oy > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book > "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their > applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, > this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Troy Benjegerdes 'da hozer' hozer@hozed.org 7 elements earth::water::air::fire::mind::spirit::soul grid.coop Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel, nor try buy a hacker who makes money by the megahash