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From: Andy Parkins <andyparkins@gmail.com>
To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Coinbase reallocation to discourage Finney attacks
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 10:57:53 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <201404231057.54387.andyparkins@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CANEZrP0szimdFSk23aMfO8p2Xtgfbm6kZ=x3rmdPDFUD73xHMg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wednesday 23 Apr 2014 08:55:30 Mike Hearn wrote:

> Even with their woeful security many merchants see <1-2% credit card
> chargeback rates, and chargebacks can be disputed. In fact merchants win
> about 40% of chargeback disputes. So if N was only, say, 5%, and there
> was a large enough population of users who were systematically trying to
> defraud merchants, we'd already be having worse security than magstripe
> credit cards. EMV transactions have loss rates in the noise, so for
> merchants who take those Bitcoin would be dramatically less secure.

Just pedantry: 100% of credit card transactions _can_ be fradulantly charged 
back but arent.  In fact, only 2% are ever attempted.

If N was 5%, then only 5% of bitcoin transactions _could_ be fraudulantly 
"charged back"; so then why wouldn't only 2% of those bitcoin transactions 
be fraudulant too, just as in the CC case?

The comparison would then be 2% chargebacks for credit cards, equivalent to 
0.1% (5%*2%) for bitcoin.


Not that I think that makes anything else you say invalid.



Andy
-- 
Dr Andy Parkins
andyparkins@gmail.com



  reply	other threads:[~2014-04-23  9:58 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 90+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-04-23  7:55 [Bitcoin-development] Coinbase reallocation to discourage Finney attacks Mike Hearn
2014-04-23  9:57 ` Andy Parkins [this message]
2014-04-23 11:07   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 11:39     ` Andy Parkins
2014-04-23 11:45       ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 13:21         ` Andy Parkins
2014-04-23 13:31           ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24  9:21             ` Andy Parkins
2014-04-23 12:43 ` Christophe Biocca
2014-04-23 12:51   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 14:52 ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-23 15:07   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 17:19     ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-23 17:47       ` Gavin Andresen
2014-04-23 17:49         ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-23 17:57           ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 18:04             ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-23 18:15               ` Peter Todd
2014-04-23 18:20                 ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-23 18:37                   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 18:49                     ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-23 19:01                       ` Drak
2014-04-23 18:58                     ` Tier Nolan
2014-04-23 15:04 ` Alex Mizrahi
2014-04-23 15:09   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 15:38     ` Alex Mizrahi
2014-04-23 16:04       ` Christophe Biocca
2014-04-23 16:19         ` Chris Pacia
2014-04-23 16:21         ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 16:33         ` Kevin
2014-04-24 11:22     ` Jorge Timón
2014-04-24 11:43       ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24 13:57         ` Jorge Timón
2014-04-24 14:28           ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24 15:37             ` Jorge Timón
2014-04-24 17:07               ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-25  4:31             ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-25 10:17               ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-25 13:19                 ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-25 15:28                   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-26 12:15                     ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-27  1:42                       ` Christophe Biocca
2014-04-27 12:53                         ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-27 14:31                           ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-27 23:10                             ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-28 21:41                           ` Adam Back
2014-04-29 14:13                             ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-29 14:21                               ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-29 14:26                                 ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-30 13:12                                   ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-30 13:55                                     ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-30 14:31                                       ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-29 19:29                               ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-30 13:00                               ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-30 17:06                                 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-04-30 17:13                                   ` Jameson Lopp
2014-04-30 14:08                               ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-23 15:28   ` Peter Todd
2014-04-23 15:34 ` Kevin
2014-04-23 15:41   ` Pieter Wuille
2014-04-23 15:55     ` Peter Todd
2014-04-23 18:57 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-23 19:19   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 19:47     ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-23 19:59       ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 20:24         ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-23 20:37           ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 20:44             ` Adam Ritter
2014-04-23 20:51               ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24 15:13                 ` Sergio Lerner
2014-04-24 15:34                   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 20:53               ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-23 21:23                 ` Tier Nolan
2014-04-23 21:39                   ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-23 22:26                     ` Tier Nolan
2014-04-24  0:55                   ` Tom Harding
     [not found]                 ` <CAKuKjyWDniyP503XSw8=tK9XQW-T58j+VD6ajXCxz=HihN93mQ@mail.gmail.com>
2014-04-24 14:52                   ` [Bitcoin-development] Fwd: " Adam Ritter
2014-04-23 20:41         ` [Bitcoin-development] " Daniel Krawisz
2014-04-23 22:06     ` Alex Mizrahi
2014-04-24  7:58       ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24  8:19         ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-24  8:39           ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24  9:25             ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-24  9:56               ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24 13:44                 ` Peter Todd
2014-04-24 14:09                   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24 14:47                     ` Christophe Biocca
2014-04-24 15:03                       ` Peter Todd
2014-04-24 16:05                         ` Christophe Biocca
2014-04-24 16:14                         ` Mike Hearn

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