From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1X3AFp-0001Ig-HQ for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:38:45 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from zinan.dashjr.org ([192.3.11.21]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) id 1X3AFn-0006Zz-1T for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:38:45 +0000 Received: from ishibashi.localnet (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:5:265:be5f:f4ff:febf:4f76]) (Authenticated sender: luke-jr) by zinan.dashjr.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A0A1F10803A3; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 20:39:21 +0000 (UTC) From: Luke Dashjr To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 20:38:30 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (Linux/3.15.0-gentoo-r1; KDE/4.12.5; x86_64; ; ) References: <10566815.3CllqoMfON@momentum> <53B6DB38.7010709@jerviss.org> In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key-Fingerprint: E463 A93F 5F31 17EE DE6C 7316 BD02 9424 21F4 889F X-PGP-Key-ID: BD02942421F4889F X-PGP-Keyserver: hkp://pgp.mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <201407042038.30993.luke@dashjr.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain X-Headers-End: 1X3AFn-0006Zz-1T Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] ASIC-proof mining X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2014 20:38:45 -0000 On Friday, July 04, 2014 8:21:42 PM Jorge Tim=C3=B3n wrote: > On 7/4/14, kjj wrote: > > I suspect that there exist no algorithms which cannot be done better in > > an application-specific device than in a general purpose computer. And > > if there is such a thing, then it must necessarily perform best on one > > specific platform, making that platform the de facto application > > specific device. > >=20 > > I'm not sure how one would go about proving or disproving that, but it > > seems very likely to be true. >=20 > I assumed this was obvious and self-evident for anyone who knows what > a Turing machine is, but judging from the number of smart people > wasting their time on the pursue of the "anti-ASIC" myth (also known > as pow wankery) it seems I was wrong. > Anything you can do with software you can do with hardware and > viceversa (you can even do it with ropes and fire in Minecraft!!) > Does this really need any proof? > I think it's the hard-pow cultists who have to provide a counterexample. Really, if people want to pursue a goal anything like this, they should be= =20 looking for "ASIC already widely owned" as the property rather than "anti- ASIC". Thus, a sufficiently memory-hard PoW would really be "RAM is the ASI= C".=20 Whether it's possible to make this or not, is another question. And then we= =20 get back to "is is really a desirable property to have people capable of=20 mining who have not given any indication of interest?"