From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2aWl-0001rx-Rd for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 07:02:07 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of petertodd.org designates 62.13.149.113 as permitted sender) client-ip=62.13.149.113; envelope-from=pete@petertodd.org; helo=outmail149113.authsmtp.com; Received: from outmail149113.authsmtp.com ([62.13.149.113]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) id 1Y2aWj-00089r-Qp for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 07:02:07 +0000 Received: from mail-c237.authsmtp.com (mail-c237.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.237]) by punt15.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id sBL71wfo091247; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 07:01:58 GMT Received: from savin.petertodd.org (75-119-251-161.dsl.teksavvy.com [75.119.251.161]) (authenticated bits=128) by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id sBL71sLQ025049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 07:01:57 GMT Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 02:01:54 -0500 From: Peter Todd To: Mark Friedenbach Message-ID: <20141221070154.GD8255@savin.petertodd.org> References: <20141212090551.GA8259@muck> <20141220144800.GA26284@savin.petertodd.org> <20141221055220.GB8255@savin.petertodd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xB0nW4MQa6jZONgY" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Server-Quench: 4112755b-88df-11e4-9f74-002590a135d3 X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at: http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR aAdMdAMUHFAXAgsB AmIbW1NeUFx7XGQ7 bA9PbARUfEhLXhtr VklWR1pVCwQmQm59 AR9dLnhydQBGfHc+ ZEZiV3UVWEV7d0F4 RxxJHWVSM3phaTUb TUkOcAdJcANIexZF O1F8UScOLwdSbGoL NQ4vNDcwO3BTJTpY RgYVKF8UXXNDIj4x DwoPGTwzHEoDXCUy N1QsJ0IDEUsXUA0K K1wmVxcfPVoqFwda HkpEHC5eIREIQSZj JAVGXAskHSVZSDYU JQchKRtFGVQI X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1024:706 X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255) X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 75.119.251.161/587 X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own anti-virus system. X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record X-Headers-End: 1Y2aWj-00089r-Qp Cc: Bitcoin Development Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] The relationship between Proof-of-Publication and Anti-Replay Oracles X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 07:02:08 -0000 --xB0nW4MQa6jZONgY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 02:18:18PM +0800, Mark Friedenbach wrote: > Care to expand? >=20 > Freimarkets does not require proof of publication of bids or asks, which > are distributed out of band from the block chain until a match is made. It > does not guarantee ordering of market transactions. Indeed, front-running > is embraced as the mechanism for generating miner fees to pay for the > service. Right, so Freimarkets is delibrately insecure. Best of luck on that. > Sybil attacks? I'm not sure what you could be referring to. In Freimarkets > a bid or ask is valid when received; a double-spend is required to cancel > it. You could only flood the network with actual executable orders, and t= he > counter-party to the order doesn't care if they all came from the same > person or not. >=20 > Can you explain what it is you are objecting to? Read my paper=B9 - proof-of-publication is what allows you to detect front-running robustly within certain parameters. Protecting against that is widely considered to be a very important goal by people actually in finance, to the point where I've had discussions with people where anti-front-running protection might be the *only* thing they use a decentralized system for. 1) Decentralized digital asset exchange with honest pricing and market dept= h, Peter Todd, Feb 9th 2014, http://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development%40lists.sourceforge.net/= msg03892.html --=20 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org 000000000000000000c879729eae178096b092248706a407ec1b18eb62a792e9 --xB0nW4MQa6jZONgY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGrBAEBCACVBQJUlnBeXhSAAAAAABUAQGJsb2NraGFzaEBiaXRjb2luLm9yZzAw MDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAxMmMxNWVhMWRkMDc3OTYyMWFiMTE5ZjQxNjkyZjVjNmEx MzY0ZDZhZGY5NTU0YzgvFIAAAAAAFQARcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JncGV0 ZUBwZXRlcnRvZC5vcmcACgkQJIFAPaXwkfuQ3wf/XyHyxrxwWCi4h9+58fiB0hmD TjZVQkjcRzcr75LDsMpUlZ56SUnKiVQJrL1irg1lrt8fAzoGW0spQJMa47ESZepK T/nQqYxrfPChkJpgVmgOikVQquPY/yVh3PXCLwhgN/K1xtfYPJHfrAcVUptJfpWT 2r2rrvGwdQ/b/FHkbOSONNTQTKhXsL8esv8PiS8sQ/Ysu3eJmNovSfqIbjWiTs6T Cvws/4xVZe6x5HvzUDz5ZQMQbM1oLlzLmEhsgN+qdJqJ3G6ptEdHfjLcoUt8hHDJ 0xDigV2VGg0eboG53f87KoMPE2mbZ1hzXV+jkFvGBnQo6LFubL2UU+r4cPqOpw== =pSZA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xB0nW4MQa6jZONgY--