From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Y7Fhk-0005X0-CJ for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sat, 03 Jan 2015 03:48:44 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of petertodd.org designates 62.13.149.113 as permitted sender) client-ip=62.13.149.113; envelope-from=pete@petertodd.org; helo=outmail149113.authsmtp.com; Received: from outmail149113.authsmtp.com ([62.13.149.113]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) id 1Y7Fhi-0006lo-C9 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sat, 03 Jan 2015 03:48:44 +0000 Received: from mail-c235.authsmtp.com (mail-c235.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.235]) by punt15.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t033mYFW003033; Sat, 3 Jan 2015 03:48:34 GMT Received: from savin.petertodd.org (75-119-251-161.dsl.teksavvy.com [75.119.251.161]) (authenticated bits=128) by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t033mUK5077640 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 3 Jan 2015 03:48:32 GMT Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2015 22:48:29 -0500 From: Peter Todd To: Sergio Lerner Message-ID: <20150103034829.GP6538@savin.petertodd.org> References: <54A1A99E.1020604@certimix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="tqN4RWvJTb9VNux/" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <54A1A99E.1020604@certimix.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Server-Quench: 63645fe6-92fb-11e4-b396-002590a15da7 X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at: http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR aAdMdgEUElQaAgsB AmMbW1deVFV7WmE7 bA9PbARUfEhLXhtr VklWR1pVCwQmRRwC BUN7KRxycAJAfH4+ ZEdkV3QVWkd8cUMr F0hJHG9QN3phaTUb TRJbfgVJcANIexZF O1F6ACIKLwdSbGoL NQ4vNDcwO3BTJTpY RgYVKF8UXXNDNB8E FVg8GjEyG1EMXTR7 IxE+LUUdAA4bNUM+ KjMG X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1023:706 X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255) X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 75.119.251.161/587 X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own anti-virus system. X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record X-Headers-End: 1Y7Fhi-0006lo-C9 Cc: bitcoin-development Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] BIP: Voluntary deposit bonds X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2015 03:48:44 -0000 --tqN4RWvJTb9VNux/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 04:21:02PM -0300, Sergio Lerner wrote: > I propose to allow miners to voluntarily lock funds by letting miners > add additional inputs to the coinbase transaction. Currently the > coinbase transaction does not allow any real input to be added (only a > pseudo-input). > This is a hard-fork, and we could include it the next time a hardfork is > made. > The modifications to the code are minimal (no more than 12 lines > modified where IsCoinBase() is called), and they generally involve > removing code, not adding. >=20 > Why ? >=20 > Because sometime in the future (maybe 5-10 years) we may have to deal > with problems of securing the blockchain, as the subsidy is lowered. We > don't want the number of confirmation blocks to be increased in > compensation because Bitcoin won't be able to compete with other payment > networks. > Then by having this hardfork now, we will be able to soft-fork later to > any rule we may came come up with involving deposit bonds, > proof-of-stake, and the penalization of double-mining (mining two blocks > at the same height) to prevent short-range attacks. >=20 > Can it hurt? >=20 > No. I doesn't not change the incentives or the security in any way, as It definitely does change the incentives as it makes it easy and secure to pay miners to mine specific blocks rather than specific transactions. For instance I could securely pay a miner to mine a re-org in a specific way, something I can't do right now. From the perspective of "the blockchain must move forward" this is worrying. I have proposed this idea before myself for my PowPay(1) micropayments scheme, but on reflection I don't think it's a good idea anymore. PowPay in general is an idea I'm now rather dubious about: it works much better with large mining pools, which would further incentivise pools to get bigger. In general we want mining to be dumber, not smarter, to keep the overhead of it as small as possible to getting into it is as easy as possible. re: hard-fork vs. soft-fork, Gregory Maxwell's comments elsewhere in the thread are what I'd say myself. 1) [Bitcoin-development] Coinbase TxOut Hashcash, Peter Todd, May 10th 2013, http://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/ms= g02159.html --=20 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org 000000000000000008bb7f424d81b7a0ea568086f4d320c2867705f88c27bb0a --tqN4RWvJTb9VNux/ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGrBAEBCACVBQJUp2aKXhSAAAAAABUAQGJsb2NraGFzaEBiaXRjb2luLm9yZzAw MDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAxNGE2ZGU4MDllMGY0MzRlMTQwNDMyNTBjNWY5MmNkYzBk ZWVjNjRjNDA1MDVkOTkvFIAAAAAAFQARcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JncGV0 ZUBwZXRlcnRvZC5vcmcACgkQJIFAPaXwkftqJgf/a5DWYpMVHff+Hwnp5/qHajAS o+XG3mwFjhi9bLb+ZUZcyyUGwJmJGicsrLbDXyDueJUAiwfAN8BCDUtBSC5ZdeMZ ROxaATPj5FjwPUew/3M2y6tS+wpqUeWWDNuTNFgqNmNMjSe8qm/mUHnQfVd4KZSW DirkE1vmQHElNxYIyflOMZ8V8hwBE3TUGLrlw+own9vrFdCuwS1fIM/HGS4wAgwL z8eALNETTM4JXzf76YcjqADryARNK79Uxfxk3FNzH4CJ7Sg0MP+SqazyuE4eRdtd 5WUdqOrkWJRWlnSg1weRlpGX/21Hm5dhyA7SaMoMyDZhFzigvq1igB37ZJjUuA== =Vebm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --tqN4RWvJTb9VNux/--