From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1YDcwA-00023z-QV for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:49:58 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of petertodd.org designates 62.13.149.115 as permitted sender) client-ip=62.13.149.115; envelope-from=pete@petertodd.org; helo=outmail149115.authsmtp.co.uk; Received: from outmail149115.authsmtp.co.uk ([62.13.149.115]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) id 1YDcw9-0004NU-IB for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:49:58 +0000 Received: from mail-c237.authsmtp.com (mail-c237.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.237]) by punt18.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t0KHnoTG069398; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:49:50 GMT Received: from muck ([8.36.127.254]) (authenticated bits=128) by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t0KHnjj5031399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:49:48 GMT Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 12:49:45 -0500 From: Peter Todd To: Matt Whitlock Message-ID: <20150120174944.GC29353@muck> References: <20150120154641.GA32556@muck> <2236907.ZtrNgikFVR@crushinator> <656E7756-5F0B-4594-B9F1-8CC68C7A5EE5@bitsofproof.com> <30930479.sqHpaOe3cY@crushinator> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="FsscpQKzF/jJk6ya" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <30930479.sqHpaOe3cY@crushinator> X-Server-Quench: baa764bb-a0cc-11e4-9f74-002590a135d3 X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at: http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR aQdMdAIUElQaAgsB AmMbWlNeVFR7XWo7 YxRSaxtcYE1QXQBu T01BRU1TWkFoemRf XEQbUhpzdAxPNn9w YkdkECIKDUN8cRQv Xx9URj4bZGY1bH0W BkdcagNUcgZDfk5E aVUrVz1vNG8XDQg5 AwQ0PjZ0MThBJSBS WgQAK04nCXoLE3Y4 Sh8LGX01HFYGXG00 IVQvN0IbWVsJPkwu MF0uEU0RNxsfFm8W BEZDHDBQPVRSDyE2 Fh9dUU8XFHVHTCNV HhwvJARIAyRJMgAA X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1024:706 X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255) X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 8.36.127.254/587 X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own anti-virus system. X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record X-Headers-End: 1YDcw9-0004NU-IB Cc: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] The legal risks of auto-updating wallet software; custodial relationships X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:49:58 -0000 --FsscpQKzF/jJk6ya Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 12:47:04PM -0500, Matt Whitlock wrote: > On Tuesday, 20 January 2015, at 6:44 pm, Tamas Blummer wrote: > > Knowing the private key and owning the linked coins is not necessarily = the same in front of a court. > >=20 > > At least in german law there is a difference between =E2=80=98Eigentum'= means ownership and =E2=80=98Besitz=E2=80=99 means ability to deal with it. > > Being able to deal with an asset does not make you the owner. >=20 > So what we're telling the newbies in /r/bitcoin is plain wrong. Bitcoins = *do* have an owner independent from the parties who have access to the priv= ate keys that control their disposition. That's pretty difficult to reconci= le from a technological perspective. The law concerns itself with what should be done, not what can be done. Bitcoin the technology doesn't have a concept of "ownership" - that's a legal notion, not a mathematical one. --=20 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org 00000000000000001a5e1dc75b28e8445c6e8a5c35c76637e33a3e96d487b74c --FsscpQKzF/jJk6ya Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGrBAEBCACVBQJUvpU1XhSAAAAAABUAQGJsb2NraGFzaEBiaXRjb2luLm9yZzAw MDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAxYTVlMWRjNzViMjhlODQ0NWM2ZThhNWMzNWM3NjYzN2Uz M2EzZTk2ZDQ4N2I3NGMvFIAAAAAAFQARcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JncGV0 ZUBwZXRlcnRvZC5vcmcACgkQJIFAPaXwkfv0pwf/enKj/cn4J4d25XJ2x8Qy0rb5 5P2Zqa1X9TXouc7lV8MNCXdKUzyDssWG3UP0G1hTHhmOJABDtLT2NsYstx1iAWzq p2vbH3CtH0moAYJ7Mqx3MIxrinxuXQCmHrdMhi0RFDDFqBOmesP3pMH3kO2xvpSF A7Qj7QTlFRMx7VqgbIVlUzCWqaFQHLgDla+M1HOb6CJ64Vf61ulkz8CUwf5sgz5p s6c346pXYgNnWxV2VXNZIGOXYKkqvUWWmJ6s9HqN8J1eEUYYvK62Iv7V2qHC8HGJ VUXm67Sxp87UpxvB2Twd4pRJGMSDsYeHfkcHmfZMAa19aJfEKSDG2stdn+pKuQ== =sHqA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --FsscpQKzF/jJk6ya--