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From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: Matt Corallo <bitcoin-list@bluematt.me>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Block Size Increase
Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 22:16:44 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20150507021644.GA21742@savin.petertodd.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <554AA6B1.8030701@bluematt.me>

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On Wed, May 06, 2015 at 11:41:37PM +0000, Matt Corallo wrote:
> Yes, but this does NOT make an actual policy. Note that the vast
> majority of miners already apply their own patches to Bitcoin Core, so
> applying one more is not all that hard. When blocks start to become
> limited (ie there is any fee left on the table by transactions not
> included in a block) there becomes incentive for miners to change that
> behavior pretty quick. Not just that, the vast majority of the hashpower
> is behind very large miners, who have little to no decentralization
> pressure. This results in very incompatible incentives, mainly that the
> incentive would be for the large miners to interconnect in a private
> network and generate only maximum-size blocks, creating a strong
> centralization pressure in the network.

I'll also point out that miners with the goal of finding more blocks
than their competition - a viable long-term strategy to increase market
share and/or a short-term strategy to get more transaction fees -
actually have a perverse incentive(1) to ensure their blocks do *not*
get to more than ~30% of the hashing power. The main thing holding them
back from doing that is that the inflation subsidy is still quite high -
better to get the reward now than try to push your competition out of
business.

It's plausible that with a limited blocksize there won't be an
opportunity to delay propagation by broadcasting larger blocks - if
blocks propagate in a matter of seconds worst case there's no
opportunity for gaming the system. But it does strongly show that we
must build systems where that worst case propagation time in all
circumstances is very short relative to the block interval.

1) http://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg03200.html

-- 
'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
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  reply	other threads:[~2015-05-07  2:16 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 116+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-05-06 22:12 [Bitcoin-development] Block Size Increase Matt Corallo
2015-05-06 22:30 ` slush
2015-05-06 23:06   ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-05-06 22:44 ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-06 23:12   ` Matt Corallo
2015-05-06 23:33     ` Tier Nolan
2015-05-06 23:41       ` Matt Corallo
2015-05-07  2:16         ` Peter Todd [this message]
2015-05-06 23:11 ` Matt Whitlock
2015-05-06 23:13   ` Matt Corallo
2015-05-07  0:00 ` Tom Harding
2015-05-07  0:07 ` Bryan Bishop
2015-05-07  0:37 ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-05-07  1:49 ` Peter Todd
2015-05-07  3:03   ` Justus Ranvier
2015-05-08 11:02   ` Thomas Zander
2015-05-08 20:17     ` Aaron Voisine
2015-05-07  3:47 ` Pieter Wuille
2015-05-07  9:25 ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-07 10:12   ` Peter Todd
2015-05-07 10:42   ` Btc Drak
2015-05-07 10:52   ` Jorge Timón
2015-05-07 11:15     ` Andrew
2015-05-07 11:29     ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-07 12:26       ` Jorge Timón
2015-05-07 14:05         ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-07 14:18           ` Bryan Bishop
2015-05-07 14:22           ` Peter Todd
2015-05-07 14:40           ` Peter Todd
2015-05-07 14:52           ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-07 14:56             ` Peter Todd
2015-05-07 15:04             ` Alex Morcos
2015-05-07 15:09               ` Jeff Garzik
2015-05-07 15:12               ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-07 15:17                 ` Jeff Garzik
2015-05-07 15:29                   ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-07 15:35                     ` Jeff Garzik
2015-05-07 16:18                       ` Justus Ranvier
2015-05-07 16:21                     ` Jorge Timón
2015-05-07 17:29                       ` Peter Todd
2015-05-07 19:37                       ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-07 19:44                         ` Jérémie Dubois-Lacoste
2015-05-07 20:20                         ` Jérémie Dubois-Lacoste
2015-05-07 15:58             ` Matthew Mitchell
2015-05-07 16:47               ` Matthew Mitchell
2015-05-07 17:26             ` Matt Corallo
     [not found]               ` <CABsx9T2vAQyZODRE9apu0R1n=LybssQcuTYD7P3mAQH_Fv6QCQ@mail.gmail.com>
2015-05-07 17:40                 ` [Bitcoin-development] Fwd: " Gavin Andresen
2015-05-07 17:43               ` [Bitcoin-development] " Mike Hearn
2015-05-07 18:03                 ` Btc Drak
2015-05-07 18:06                   ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-07 18:21                     ` Ross Nicoll
2015-05-07 18:40                     ` Gavin Costin
2015-05-07 18:46                       ` Btc Drak
2015-05-07 19:31                         ` Bernard Rihn
2015-05-07 19:31                     ` Alan Reiner
2015-05-07 19:54                       ` Jeff Garzik
2015-05-07 19:59                         ` Justus Ranvier
2015-05-08  1:40                         ` Tom Harding
2015-05-08  2:09                           ` Jeff Garzik
2015-05-08  5:13                             ` Tom Harding
2015-05-08  9:43                               ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-08 15:23                               ` Alan Reiner
2015-05-08 14:59                         ` Alan Reiner
2015-05-08 15:49                           ` Jeff Garzik
2015-05-13 10:37                             ` Oliver Egginger
2015-05-13 11:25                               ` Angel Leon
2015-05-08 17:17                           ` Andrew
2015-05-08 17:51                             ` Alan Reiner
     [not found]                               ` <CADZB0_bK+YsK8sN-di2pynvjsq5VjSvnEu0-cCGhPqFunyVm7Q@mail.gmail.com>
2015-05-09 12:02                                 ` Andrew
2015-05-09 12:53                                   ` Justus Ranvier
2015-05-09 18:33                                     ` Andrew
2015-05-08  1:51                       ` Joel Joonatan Kaartinen
2015-05-08  3:41                       ` Peter Todd
2015-05-07 18:38                   ` Chris Wardell
2015-05-07 18:55                     ` Alex Mizrahi
2015-05-07 18:59                     ` Ross Nicoll
2015-05-07 19:03                 ` Matt Corallo
2015-05-07 19:13                   ` Jeff Garzik
2015-05-07 19:34                   ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-07 21:29                     ` Matt Corallo
2015-05-07 23:05                       ` 21E14
2015-05-07 15:33           ` Jorge Timón
2015-05-07 16:11             ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-07 16:47               ` Jorge Timón
2015-05-07 16:59                 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-05-07 17:42                   ` Peter Todd
2015-05-07 18:05                   ` Jorge Timón
2015-05-07 19:57               ` Btc Drak
2015-05-07 15:39           ` Btc Drak
2015-05-07 13:02       ` Peter Todd
2015-05-07 19:14       ` Matt Corallo
2015-05-07 11:55     ` Dave Hudson
2015-05-07 13:40       ` Jorge Timón
2015-05-08  4:46         ` Tom Harding
2015-05-07 14:04   ` Jeff Garzik
2015-05-07 14:32     ` Peter Todd
2015-05-07 14:38     ` Justus Ranvier
2015-05-07 14:49       ` Peter Todd
2015-05-07 15:13         ` Justus Ranvier
2015-05-07 15:25           ` Peter Todd
2015-05-07 15:04       ` Jeff Garzik
2015-05-07 15:16         ` Justus Ranvier
2015-05-07 15:27           ` Jeff Garzik
2015-05-07 15:33             ` Justus Ranvier
2015-05-07 15:47               ` Jeff Garzik
2015-05-07 15:50                 ` Justus Ranvier
2015-05-07 11:20 ` Wladimir J. van der Laan
2015-05-07 11:30   ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-05-07 15:56 ` Jeff Garzik
2015-05-07 16:13   ` Mike Hearn
2015-05-07 16:54 John Bodeen
2015-05-08 20:38 Raystonn .
2015-05-08 20:40 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-05-08 20:51 Raystonn
2015-05-08 20:55 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-05-08 21:01 Raystonn

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