From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5zXu-0004mc-Jr for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 16:53:38 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of petertodd.org designates 62.13.148.161 as permitted sender) client-ip=62.13.148.161; envelope-from=pete@petertodd.org; helo=outmail148161.authsmtp.com; Received: from outmail148161.authsmtp.com ([62.13.148.161]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) id 1Z5zXs-00019e-LB for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 16:53:38 +0000 Received: from mail-c235.authsmtp.com (mail-c235.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.235]) by punt15.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t5JGrRAF053564; Fri, 19 Jun 2015 17:53:27 +0100 (BST) Received: from savin.petertodd.org (75-119-251-161.dsl.teksavvy.com [75.119.251.161]) (authenticated bits=128) by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t5JGrJp4069709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 19 Jun 2015 17:53:22 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 12:53:19 -0400 From: Peter Todd To: Eric Lombrozo Message-ID: <20150619165319.GA30295@savin.petertodd.org> References: <20150619103959.GA32315@savin.petertodd.org> <04CE3756-B032-464C-8FBD-7ACDD1A3197D@gmail.com> <812d8353e66637ec182da31bc0a9aac1@riseup.net> <1727885.UUNByX4Jyd@crushinator> <83A7C606-B601-47D2-BE10-2A1412D97514@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="/9DWx/yDrRhgMJTb" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83A7C606-B601-47D2-BE10-2A1412D97514@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Server-Quench: b242b16b-16a3-11e5-b396-002590a15da7 X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at: http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR bgdMdwsUEkAaAgsB AmMbWlNeVV57W2A7 bA9PbARUfEhLXhtr VklWR1pVCwQmRRl7 cVxkEh1ycQxBeHc+ ZEVlVnAVDkZ+dxR8 RBxJFGtXZnphaTUa TRJbfgVJcANIexZF O1F6ACIKLwdSbGoL NQ4vNDcwO3BTJTpY RgYVKF8UXXNDMGQE QBcGVTUmBgUIQSw5 KxEqYlABGEJZKEgq NVIqVBcSIlocBwA2 X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1023:706 X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255) X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 75.119.251.161/587 X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own anti-virus system. X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record X-Headers-End: 1Z5zXs-00019e-LB Cc: Bitcoin Dev , justusranvier@riseup.net Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] F2Pool has enabled full replace-by-fee X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 16:53:38 -0000 --/9DWx/yDrRhgMJTb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 09:42:33AM -0700, Eric Lombrozo wrote: > If we want a non-repudiation mechanism in the protocol, we should explici= tly define one rather than relying on =E2=80=9Cprima facie=E2=80=9D assumpt= ions. Otherwise, I would recommend not relying on the existence of a signed= transaction as proof of intent to pay=E2=80=A6 Indeed. For instance, one of the ideas behind my Proofchains work is that you could hind all details of a smartcontract-whatchamacallit protocol behind single-use-seals in a consensus blockchain. Closing those seals, that is spending the appropriate txouts, represents things in the protocol which are absolutely unobservable to anyone without the data behind those hashes, an extreme version of the above. Incidentally, some patent prior-art exposure: https://github.com/proofchains/python-proofchains :) --=20 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org 00000000000000000a203bd78c8536399f67275064107def6c7afea29c4e3a7b --/9DWx/yDrRhgMJTb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGrBAEBCACVBQJVhEj7XhSAAAAAABUAQGJsb2NraGFzaEBiaXRjb2luLm9yZzAw MDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwYTIwM2JkNzhjODUzNjM5OWY2NzI3NTA2NDEwN2RlZjZj N2FmZWEyOWM0ZTNhN2IvFIAAAAAAFQARcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JncGV0 ZUBwZXRlcnRvZC5vcmcACgkQJIFAPaXwkfuQ2gf+JZW4eexrgDszM1gvGa65Br4D uxjo/nkFDFjp8zqy0uRpOTvj+b2bHJMkpp0BxpohOZdWEIJpXz8H4+nIdT9nrgjR atdREUCv7wX3oAsyZhf7LdlJacAJKM2M2YIltG7aVykk+bTYscy2+mqHjHNXkA8G s+IlE8Gdnr7ED7GosXM2VPZMfzhRHxsFg6qqHPFDV7CFgTLah5H1w79IEyBFbVMU v6Unx+6RfeNUoC3EhfvSK9ldDc76bwNWhoo2kfMiUd+zm6cqHtnMCozakPLQ+Tmd ZvUmY5w2szI21YQaaez6PLDPMGcCNoADAhRT+9JINoYmJpHd7ITOg3xBZZEsuA== =r7XA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --/9DWx/yDrRhgMJTb--