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From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: Ross Nicoll <jrn@jrn.me.uk>
Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] The need for larger blocks
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 15:36:30 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20150626193630.GB17829@muck> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <558DA56F.3010703@jrn.me.uk>

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On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 08:18:07PM +0100, Ross Nicoll wrote:
> I'd argue that at the point where there's consistently more
> transactions than the network can handle, there are two significant
> risks. Firstly, that people don't care enough to pay the transaction
> fees required to get their transaction prioritised over another's,
> and secondly that as transactions start outright failing (which will
> happen with enough transactions backlogged) the network is
> considered unreliable, the currency illiquid, and there's a virtual
> "bank rush" to get into a more usable currency.

The supply and demand fee market means that there is a range of
reliability levels depending on what fee you pay; regardless of how high
demand is if you pay a sufficiently high fee that outbids less
important/lower fee transactions you'll get reliable transaction
confirmaiton.

The perceived lack of reliability is a function of the poor state of
wallet software, not an inherent problem with the system. Fixing that
software is much easier and much less risky than any hard-fork ever will
be.

From my article on transaction fees during the CoinWallet.eu flood:

What needs to be done
=====================

Transaction fees aren't going away, blocksize increase or not. CoinWallet.eu is
only spending $5k flooding the network; even an 8MB blocksize increase can only
raise the cost of that attack to $40k, which is still very affordable. For
instance an attacker looking to manipulate the Bitcoin price could probably
afford to spend $40k doing it with the right trading strategy; let alone
governments, banks, big businesses, criminal enterprises, etc. to whom $40k is
chump-change. Wallets need to become smarter about fees, as does the rest of
the Bitcoin community.

What we need to do:

* Add fee/KB displays to block explorers.

* Change wallets to calculate and set fees in fee/KB rather than fixed fees regardless of tx size.

* Make websites with easy to understand displays of what the current mempool
  backlog is, and what fee/KB is needed to get to the front of the queue. We've
  done a great job for Bitcoin price charts, let's extend that to transaction
  fees.

* Add the ability to set any fee/KB to wallets, rather than be stuck with
  predefined options that may not be high enough.

* Add support for fee-bumping via (FSS)-RBF to wallets and Bitcoin Core.

Capacity limits are just a fact of life in the design of the Bitcoin protocol,
but that doesn't mean we can't give users the tools to deal with them
intelligently.

-https://gist.github.com/petertodd/8e87c782bdf342ef18fb

-- 
'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
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  reply	other threads:[~2015-06-26 19:36 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 61+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-06-26 14:09 [bitcoin-dev] The need for larger blocks Pieter Wuille
2015-06-26 14:38 ` Venzen Khaosan
2015-06-26 15:22 ` Milly Bitcoin
2015-06-26 15:24   ` Pieter Wuille
2015-06-26 18:05     ` Jeff Garzik
2015-06-26 18:32       ` Milly Bitcoin
2015-06-26 15:38 ` Tom Harding
2015-06-26 16:22   ` Venzen Khaosan
2015-06-26 17:04     ` Tom Harding
2015-06-26 17:55       ` Gavin Andresen
2015-06-26 17:57 ` Jeff Garzik
2015-06-26 18:12   ` Pieter Wuille
2015-06-26 18:23     ` Jeff Garzik
2015-06-26 18:31       ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-06-26 19:05         ` Aaron Voisine
2015-06-26 18:34       ` Pieter Wuille
2015-06-26 19:18         ` Ross Nicoll
2015-06-26 19:36           ` Peter Todd [this message]
2015-06-27  6:13             ` Filipe Farinha
2015-06-27  7:14               ` Aaron Voisine
2015-06-27 15:13                 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 19:40                   ` Aaron Voisine
2015-06-26 18:47       ` Patrick Strateman
2015-06-26 19:03         ` Tier Nolan
2015-06-26 19:12           ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-06-26 20:44       ` Owen Gunden
2015-06-27  2:18         ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-06-27  2:54           ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-06-27  8:16           ` Venzen Khaosan
2015-06-26 18:29     ` Alex Morcos
2015-06-27  7:43 ` Wladimir J. van der Laan
2015-06-27  9:55   ` NxtChg
2015-06-27 10:04     ` Wladimir J. van der Laan
2015-06-27 10:29       ` NxtChg
2015-06-27 11:04         ` Jorge Timón
2015-06-27 11:18           ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-06-27 11:43             ` Jorge Timón
2015-06-27 12:10           ` NxtChg
2015-06-28 12:13             ` Jorge Timón
2015-06-28 13:51               ` Ivan Brightly
2015-06-28 14:13                 ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-06-28 14:16                 ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-06-28 14:22                   ` Ivan Brightly
2015-06-28 15:05                 ` Jorge Timón
2015-06-28 16:01                   ` Ivan Brightly
2015-06-28 15:28               ` s7r
2015-06-28 15:45                 ` Jorge Timón
2015-06-27 10:19     ` Venzen Khaosan
2015-06-27 19:55       ` Aaron Voisine
2015-06-28 16:37         ` Venzen Khaosan
2015-06-28 20:56           ` Aaron Voisine
2015-06-27 10:13   ` Jorge Timón
2015-06-27 12:09     ` Wladimir J. van der Laan
2015-06-27 12:15       ` NxtChg
2015-06-27 12:17         ` Greg Sanders
2015-06-27 12:25           ` NxtChg
2015-06-27 12:35             ` Greg Sanders
2015-06-27 12:25         ` Wladimir J. van der Laan
2015-06-27 12:50           ` NxtChg
2015-06-27 13:01             ` Wladimir J. van der Laan
2015-06-28 12:03       ` Jorge Timón

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