From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36251826 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 04:39:29 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-pa0-f45.google.com (mail-pa0-f45.google.com [209.85.220.45]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B999E107 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 04:39:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pacrr5 with SMTP id rr5so94679302pac.3 for ; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 21:39:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lightning.network; s=google; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=6MuSyIWDFTbey2Zd0r9h7nuMj/vlL+nzPaF+mJQ+Hcg=; b=E2/YuYhzkC2nAg3xtZ4KU0Q3tYMqutvs4UcQgv9PmYoXjTa36g7E2/vVbo7TAnl6CR g6VAkDPqYFFwVgPc0Iov0t06qT0i7sTIiY+B5AO+6SMRHsuxHmH2tfkddDGQP+fDOeC/ p1P9DR6QXHhSTQfa7GqbEwb6qgLAUYHHCV380= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=6MuSyIWDFTbey2Zd0r9h7nuMj/vlL+nzPaF+mJQ+Hcg=; b=gYaQ6vFxY5t7Eks6IuW3hRFPWg5PW1jAHVzczu+jAiw4F3za9n0DSwTg87NzJOBr42 UXbUuh1NnDAc88ODqPVYpuj4Iw+RtzHLRgu/onqvemhR3bcH7KwG69cJYFEofA1NYUF0 8Cf4N/AzUM0xzdjEFlWTH72Gs/9MVOFFLS3vp8EdVBxpeFoMvlc46oQsZIo0KRmj1PtM TVCwt7V+qvD2oJgAQYL+2U/13CjD7CTkZglVvMKWqWrF/EfCQwEmXd/uG138Eqn79oE5 tun1tUo5sR6CYRfSI7jRhjVqqRy7fARTpRN6+XmuBe6k9e2vp4cJKkJI9+oxklEI1Vs8 4NLw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmIj/V2Ze4MIboo/Z5VHLWRk/hsfcEyST48wNmas2ul8aC0b3gxwyVmpGJhkcGNV28h8a4l X-Received: by 10.66.66.163 with SMTP id g3mr40991348pat.85.1439181568440; Sun, 09 Aug 2015 21:39:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([209.141.33.28]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j4sm18153561pdo.62.2015.08.09.21.39.27 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 09 Aug 2015 21:39:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 21:39:13 -0700 From: Joseph Poon To: Gavin Andresen Message-ID: <20150810043913.GB1758@lightning.network> References: <55C79FF0.8040100@thinlink.com> <55C7CECB.7050905@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] What Lightning Is X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 04:39:29 -0000 Hi Gavin, On Sun, Aug 09, 2015 at 06:44:08PM -0400, Gavin Andresen via bitcoin-dev wrote: > I'd love to see somebody write up a higher-level description of what the > user experience is like, what communication happens underneath, and what > new pieces of infrastructure need to get built to make it all work. I'm writing a (hopefully more accessible) summary on Lightning currently. It might not go into too much detail with infrastructure, but is a bit more UX focused. > A customer starts with eleven on-chain bitcoin. They want to pay for a nice > cup of tea. Walk me through what happens before/during/after the > transaction, assuming I have a lightning-enabled wallet on my iPhone and > the tea shop has a lightning-enabled cash register. > > Assume neither the customer nor the tea shop are technically sophisticated > -- assume the customer is using an SPV wallet and the tea shop is using a > service similar to Bitpay. It's a bit of a tangent, but I see it as necessary that all Lightning services/wallets support on-chain payments for a multitude of reasons, including usability and long-term security/fungibility. For that reason, the UX flow for payment after channels are established should not be significantly different than Payment Protocol based payment flows (with the only exception being a possible additional fee dialog box/alert when the fees will be higher than expected/on-chain). -- Joseph Poon