From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13418826 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 19:16:42 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from outmail148095.authsmtp.com (outmail148095.authsmtp.com [62.13.148.95]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EFBA20E for ; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 19:16:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-c235.authsmtp.com (mail-c235.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.235]) by punt18.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t7HJGcm1024600; Mon, 17 Aug 2015 20:16:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from muck (S0106e03f49079160.ok.shawcable.net [174.4.1.120]) (authenticated bits=128) by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t7HJEilW064757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 17 Aug 2015 20:16:34 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:14:40 -0700 From: Peter Todd To: Gregory Maxwell Message-ID: <20150817191440.GA20299@muck> References: <6EC9DDF352DC4838AE9B088AB372428A25E1F42A@DS04> <55D1C81D.4070402@olivere.de> <55D1CAAF.6010400@olivere.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Server-Quench: 7bbe8f8f-4514-11e5-b398-002590a15da7 X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at: http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR aQdMdwUUGUATAgsB AmMbWVReUVt7Wms7 ag1VcwFDY1RPXQV1 VUBOXVMcUAIQe2lY WnkeVB11cgIIeXxz ZUUsWSIJCUwsfRBg RktVEXAHZDJldTIc WUhFdwNWdQpKLx5A PgF4GhFYa3VsNCMk FAgyOXU9MCtqYA5U XgoKLFRacXpDMDkm RHjL X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1023:706 X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255) X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 174.4.1.120/587 X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own anti-virus system. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin XT Fork X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 19:16:42 -0000 --Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 05:18:02PM +0000, Gregory Maxwell via bitcoin-dev w= rote: > On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Oliver Egginger via bitcoin-dev > wrote: > > To avoid such discussions. >=20 > You seem to be assuming that there is specific reason to believe the > message is unauthentic. This is not the case. >=20 > Contrary to other poster's claims, if the message had been PGP signed > that might, in fact, have arguably been weak evidence that it was > unauthentic: no message from the system's creator that I (or > apparently anyone) was aware of was ever signed with that key. > A focus on the content is especially relevant because one of the core > messages in the content is a request to eschew arguments from > authority; which is perhaps the greatest challenge here: How can the > founder of a system speak up to ask people to reject that kind of > argument without implicitly endorsing that approach through their own > act? Something I only recently realised is that Satoshi's apparent policy(1) of never making any cryptographically secure signatures to link together his posts - or indeed any communication at all - fits well with the avoidance of creating a central authority figure. Currently every single thing Satoshi ever apparently wrote can only be linked together by trusting third parties - email archives could have been hacked, bitcointalk might have fake messages, etc. Obviously in practice we have reasonable assurance that the same person or group was behind most of the messages we now consider to be "from Satoshi", but ultimately strictly speaking we can only take each message individually, for the arguments contained within. As you've often said, the biggest achievement by Satoshi in the creation of Bitcoin was to create a system where the identity of the creator is a mere historical footnote. We can probably go further, and state that while doing so, Satoshi quite counter-intuitively took steps to avoid even creating a pseudoanonymous identity. 1) "Does anyone have anything at all signed by Satoshi's PGP key?", Peter Todd, Sept 13, 2014, Bitcoin-development mailing list, http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2014-September/00= 6606.html --=20 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org 00000000000000000402fe6fb9ad613c93e12bddfc6ec02a2bd92f002050594d --Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGrBAEBCACVBQJV0jKdXhSAAAAAABUAQGJsb2NraGFzaEBiaXRjb2luLm9yZzAw MDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwNDAyZmU2ZmI5YWQ2MTNjOTNlMTJiZGRmYzZlYzAyYTJi ZDkyZjAwMjA1MDU5NGQvFIAAAAAAFQARcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JncGV0 ZUBwZXRlcnRvZC5vcmcACgkQwIXyHOf0udy/VQf+Lpe1eLkVvwdyARP/mE0dRF5t 7d7oGuGiUChKhPLWr+ssAT87q57KHfBoDlyvqRQLTPE6jIb8Er9DENuT4I75Pzxq GnY85kpbpl2ycYy50wxB+ZT387C3NH78Z9MWysVgx6QkjzIMLjEDEchtGVZXPrMk cYZVDtRb1/rylg1W9rWpNnWsHGnsq8mRsHtTarym5t5Yd5jwhljIo5/aO6wOIOtz IwPe5RtwNGUIZdVMtb5tXV/iO+Gn4VP4EoHY/+bQOtZooD7gX/b7CLiPlQHDAZ1z ViUHGzBJ50FadPxf3lDrJbpZz1mWsx/lOb2hOHx7Diq31wWbGBZy8v/CBp+Srw== =qwOz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z--