[bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Wladimir J. van der Laan]

Hello,

At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular developer meeting in #bitcoin-dev.

Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a time that many people are expected to be present and current issues can be discussed.

Any preference for days/times?

What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday?

Wladimir

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Alex Morcos]

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+1
sounds good to me!



On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 9:07 PM, Wladimir J. van der Laan via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular developer
> meeting in #bitcoin-dev.
>
> Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a time that
> many people are expected to be present and current issues can be discussed.
>
> Any preference for days/times?
>
> What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday?
>
> Wladimir
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Peter Todd]

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On 17 September 2015 19:56:17 GMT-07:00, Alex Morcos via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>+1
>sounds good to me!

+2

My schedule is chaotic, but I'll try to attend.
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Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Mark Friedenbach]

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I am unlikely to attend at that time, but there is no time that will fit
everybody's schedules. I approve of the idea and look forward to reading
the logs.

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 9:07 PM, Wladimir J. van der Laan via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular developer
> meeting in #bitcoin-dev.
>
> Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a time that
> many people are expected to be present and current issues can be discussed.
>
> Any preference for days/times?
>
> What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday?
>
> Wladimir
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Luke Dashjr]

On Friday, September 18, 2015 1:07:10 AM Wladimir J. van der Laan via 
bitcoin-dev wrote:
> At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular developer
> meeting in #bitcoin-dev.
> 
> Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a time that
> many people are expected to be present and current issues can be
> discussed.

I think it's important to make a point that these meetings are for 
discussions, and explicitly never decisions, to avoid a repeat of the P2SH 
events when people have to miss it.

> Any preference for days/times?
> 
> What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday?

I think I would prefer a bit later, but I could probably make this work. 
Probably should try to make it more practical for California devs though, 
since there are a number of them.

Luke

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Jonas Schnelli]

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Hash: SHA256

> On Friday, September 18, 2015 1:07:10 AM Wladimir J. van der Laan
> via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>> At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular
>> developer meeting in #bitcoin-dev.
>> 
>> Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a
>> time that many people are expected to be present and current
>> issues can be discussed.
> 
> I think it's important to make a point that these meetings are for
>  discussions, and explicitly never decisions, to avoid a repeat of
> the P2SH events when people have to miss it.
> 
>> Any preference for days/times?
>> 
>> What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday?

+1 for the weekly IRC meetings.

For time and date maybe a Doodle could help:
http://doodle.com/poll/cihug53sa8u4h2in#table


- ---
jonas
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Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Eric Lombrozo]

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I love the weekly meeting idea...but timezones might be an issue.

My general preference would be afternoons to late evenings pacific time, but that translates to late night/early morning for those in europe.

On September 18, 2015 12:04:58 AM PDT, Jonas Schnelli via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA256
>
>> On Friday, September 18, 2015 1:07:10 AM Wladimir J. van der Laan
>> via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>>> At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular
>>> developer meeting in #bitcoin-dev.
>>> 
>>> Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a
>>> time that many people are expected to be present and current
>>> issues can be discussed.
>> 
>> I think it's important to make a point that these meetings are for
>>  discussions, and explicitly never decisions, to avoid a repeat of
>> the P2SH events when people have to miss it.
>> 
>>> Any preference for days/times?
>>> 
>>> What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday?
>
>+1 for the weekly IRC meetings.
>
>For time and date maybe a Doodle could help:
>http://doodle.com/poll/cihug53sa8u4h2in#table
>
>
>- ---
>jonas
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>_______________________________________________
>bitcoin-dev mailing list
>bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Matt Corallo]

Generally in favor, but for practical purposes can we select a timezone
that is available in Google Calendar? It appears it does not directly
support UTC...

On 09/18/15 01:07, Wladimir J. van der Laan via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular developer meeting in #bitcoin-dev.
> 
> Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a time that many people are expected to be present and current issues can be discussed.
> 
> Any preference for days/times?
> 
> What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday?
> 
> Wladimir
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> 

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Btc Drak]

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Google calendar is localised, so it doesn't matter. The problem with
quoting UTC anyway it the meeting times are going to change for those that
observe DST. It would be much better to quote an actual timezone of an
actual area so it will remain constant, like 1700 CEST, or 0900AM PDT for
example. Otherwise when the clocks change, what was a convenient meeting
time will become inconvenient for some.

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 9:14 PM, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Generally in favor, but for practical purposes can we select a timezone
> that is available in Google Calendar? It appears it does not directly
> support UTC...
>
> On 09/18/15 01:07, Wladimir J. van der Laan via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular
> developer meeting in #bitcoin-dev.
> >
> > Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a time
> that many people are expected to be present and current issues can be
> discussed.
> >
> > Any preference for days/times?
> >
> > What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday?
> >
> > Wladimir
> > _______________________________________________
> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
> > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> >
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Matt Corallo]

Google Calendar is localized, but has an option to change the timezone
of an event, it just doesnt have UTC in its options. So, yes, we should
use something that observes DST in roughly the same way as everyone else
- CEST/PDT/EST/etc.

On 09/18/15 20:24, Btc Drak wrote:
> Google calendar is localised, so it doesn't matter. The problem with
> quoting UTC anyway it the meeting times are going to change for those
> that observe DST. It would be much better to quote an actual timezone of
> an actual area so it will remain constant, like 1700 CEST, or 0900AM PDT
> for example. Otherwise when the clocks change, what was a convenient
> meeting time will become inconvenient for some.
> 
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 9:14 PM, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
> 
>     Generally in favor, but for practical purposes can we select a timezone
>     that is available in Google Calendar? It appears it does not directly
>     support UTC...
> 
>     On 09/18/15 01:07, Wladimir J. van der Laan via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>     > Hello,
>     >
>     > At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular
>     developer meeting in #bitcoin-dev.
>     >
>     > Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a
>     time that many people are expected to be present and current issues
>     can be discussed.
>     >
>     > Any preference for days/times?
>     >
>     > What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday?
>     >
>     > Wladimir
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > bitcoin-dev mailing list
>     > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>     <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
>     > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>     >
>     _______________________________________________
>     bitcoin-dev mailing list
>     bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>     <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
>     https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> 
> 

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Jeffrey Paul]

> On 18 Sep 2015, at 22:27, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> 
> Google Calendar is localized, but has an option to change the timezone
> of an event, it just doesnt have UTC in its options. So, yes, we should
> use something that observes DST in roughly the same way as everyone else
> - CEST/PDT/EST/etc.

According to this post, it is possible to configure Google Calendar to show an additional time zone to your localized one, and GMT/UTC is indeed in the list.

    https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/calendar/y6uaiAdZrIg

-jp

--
Jeffrey Paul                                                      EEQJ
jp@eeqj.com                                           https://eeqj.com
+1-800-403-1126 (America)                  +1-312-361-0355 (Worldwide)
5539 AD00 DE4C 42F3 AFE1                      1575 0524 43F4 DF2A 55C2

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Matt Corallo]

I believe that is out of date. I see neither UTC nor GMT on the website nor on Android.

Matt

On September 18, 2015 4:30:23 PM EDT, Jeffrey Paul <jp@eeqj.com> wrote:
>
>> On 18 Sep 2015, at 22:27, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
><bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Google Calendar is localized, but has an option to change the
>timezone
>> of an event, it just doesnt have UTC in its options. So, yes, we
>should
>> use something that observes DST in roughly the same way as everyone
>else
>> - CEST/PDT/EST/etc.
>
>According to this post, it is possible to configure Google Calendar to
>show an additional time zone to your localized one, and GMT/UTC is
>indeed in the list.
>
>    https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/calendar/y6uaiAdZrIg
>
>-jp
>
>--
>Jeffrey Paul                                                      EEQJ
>jp@eeqj.com                                           https://eeqj.com
>+1-800-403-1126 (America)                  +1-312-361-0355 (Worldwide)
>5539 AD00 DE4C 42F3 AFE1                      1575 0524 43F4 DF2A 55C2

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Gregory Maxwell]

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> Google Calendar is localized, but has an option to change the timezone
> of an event, it just doesnt have UTC in its options. So, yes, we should
> use something that observes DST in roughly the same way as everyone else
> - CEST/PDT/EST/etc.

uh. There is fairly little global consistency in DST usage. Lots of
places do dst on different dates.

So if it's in some DST timezone it's likely to move twice each change
for some subset of the people who do it.

E.g. europe and US end DST one week apart.

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Btc Drak]

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Urgh... Can we hardfork time? It's clearly in need of an upgrade...

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 9:31 PM, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> > Google Calendar is localized, but has an option to change the timezone
> > of an event, it just doesnt have UTC in its options. So, yes, we should
> > use something that observes DST in roughly the same way as everyone else
> > - CEST/PDT/EST/etc.
>
> uh. There is fairly little global consistency in DST usage. Lots of
> places do dst on different dates.
>
> So if it's in some DST timezone it's likely to move twice each change
> for some subset of the people who do it.
>
> E.g. europe and US end DST one week apart.
>

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Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[jl2012]

It is possible to softfork. Just use Iceland time. Iceland time = UTC 
without DST

Btc Drak via bitcoin-dev 於 2015-09-18 16:34 寫到:
> Urgh... Can we hardfork time? It's clearly in need of an upgrade...
> 
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 9:31 PM, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
>> <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>> Google Calendar is localized, but has an option to change the
>> timezone
>>> of an event, it just doesnt have UTC in its options. So, yes, we
>> should
>>> use something that observes DST in roughly the same way as
>> everyone else
>>> - CEST/PDT/EST/etc.
>> 
>> uh. There is fairly little global consistency in DST usage. Lots of
>> places do dst on different dates.
>> 
>> So if it's in some DST timezone it's likely to move twice each
>> change
>> for some subset of the people who do it.
>> 
>> E.g. europe and US end DST one week apart.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Matt Corallo]

Yes, I'm aware, however they are closer to each other than UTC is to either :p.

On September 18, 2015 4:31:28 PM EDT, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
><bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>> Google Calendar is localized, but has an option to change the
>timezone
>> of an event, it just doesnt have UTC in its options. So, yes, we
>should
>> use something that observes DST in roughly the same way as everyone
>else
>> - CEST/PDT/EST/etc.
>
>uh. There is fairly little global consistency in DST usage. Lots of
>places do dst on different dates.
>
>So if it's in some DST timezone it's likely to move twice each change
>for some subset of the people who do it.
>
>E.g. europe and US end DST one week apart.

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Luke Dashjr]

On Friday, September 18, 2015 8:24:50 PM Btc Drak via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> Google calendar is localised, so it doesn't matter. The problem with
> quoting UTC anyway it the meeting times are going to change for those that
> observe DST. It would be much better to quote an actual timezone of an
> actual area so it will remain constant, like 1700 CEST, or 0900AM PDT for
> example. Otherwise when the clocks change, what was a convenient meeting
> time will become inconvenient for some.

Not everyone does crazy clock-changing. Using such a time system for 
scheduling seems to inconvenience the wrong position. (although perhaps 
arguably better since most people probably use DST) :p

(Aside, if Google Calendar can't support standard UTC, that sounds like an 
argument against using Google Calendar...)

> Urgh... Can we hardfork time? It's clearly in need of an upgrade...

Tonal time works nice any consistently. :D

Luke

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Dave Scotese]

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I am in a timezone that uses DST (currently PDT), but I would like us to
use a timezone that does NOT use DST.  It will be nice to have something
that reflects the seasonal patterns like my own body does.  I hate the time
change in both ways.

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> On Friday, September 18, 2015 8:24:50 PM Btc Drak via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> > Google calendar is localised, so it doesn't matter. The problem with
> > quoting UTC anyway it the meeting times are going to change for those
> that
> > observe DST. It would be much better to quote an actual timezone of an
> > actual area so it will remain constant, like 1700 CEST, or 0900AM PDT for
> > example. Otherwise when the clocks change, what was a convenient meeting
> > time will become inconvenient for some.
>
> Not everyone does crazy clock-changing. Using such a time system for
> scheduling seems to inconvenience the wrong position. (although perhaps
> arguably better since most people probably use DST) :p
>
> (Aside, if Google Calendar can't support standard UTC, that sounds like an
> argument against using Google Calendar...)
>
> > Urgh... Can we hardfork time? It's clearly in need of an upgrade...
>
> Tonal time works nice any consistently. :D
>
> Luke
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>



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Nakamoto

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Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Luke Dashjr]

On Friday, September 18, 2015 8:24:50 PM Btc Drak via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> Google calendar is localised, so it doesn't matter. The problem with
> quoting UTC anyway it the meeting times are going to change for those that
> observe DST. It would be much better to quote an actual timezone of an
> actual area so it will remain constant, like 1700 CEST, or 0900AM PDT for
> example. Otherwise when the clocks change, what was a convenient meeting
> time will become inconvenient for some.

Not everyone does crazy clock-changing. Using such a time system for 
scheduling seems to inconvenience the wrong position. (although perhaps 
arguably better since most people probably use DST) :p

(Aside, if Google Calendar can't support standard UTC, that sounds like an 
argument against using Google Calendar...)

> Urgh... Can we hardfork time? It's clearly in need of an upgrade...

Tonal time works nice and consistently. :D

Luke

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Wladimir J. van der Laan]

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 03:07:10AM +0200, Wladimir J. van der Laan wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular developer meeting in #bitcoin-dev.
> 
> Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a time that many people are expected to be present and current issues can be discussed.
> 
> Any preference for days/times?
> 
> What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday?

From Jonasschnelli's doodle ( http://doodle.com/poll/cihug53sa8u4h2in#table ) it appears that Thursday 19:00 UTC - 20:00 UTC is the most popular time.

I think scheduling the meeting in UTC (=Iceland time) makes sense internationally because different locales have different DST or no DST at all, so all in all that makes it more complex. It's true that this can make a convenient time less convenient half of the year, for some people, but I don't think there's a time that works for everyone anyway...

Wladimir

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[gb]

Although the planning for this a bit far along now, one consideration I
might add from experience on working with other transglobal IT projects
is the effect of timezones on local mood/alertness/awareness etc. The
guys at 9am pinging on their first coffee in the antipodes will be in a
different mindset than those at 21:00 in Europe, and this is
unavoidable. What is possible is to schedule the meeting every other
week at a time that is better for the "other" half, whoever that might
be. This comes at the cost of not having an exactly same time set every
week.

On Mon, 2015-09-21 at 15:29 +0200, Wladimir J. van der Laan via
bitcoin-dev wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 03:07:10AM +0200, Wladimir J. van der Laan wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > At Monday's code sprint we had a good idea to schedule a regular developer meeting in #bitcoin-dev.
> > 
> > Attendance is of course voluntary, but it may be good to have a time that many people are expected to be present and current issues can be discussed.
> > 
> > Any preference for days/times?
> > 
> > What about e.g. every week 15:00-16:00 UTC on Thursday?
> 
> From Jonasschnelli's doodle ( http://doodle.com/poll/cihug53sa8u4h2in#table ) it appears that Thursday 19:00 UTC - 20:00 UTC is the most popular time.
> 
> I think scheduling the meeting in UTC (=Iceland time) makes sense internationally because different locales have different DST or no DST at all, so all in all that makes it more complex. It's true that this can make a convenient time less convenient half of the year, for some people, but I don't think there's a time that works for everyone anyway...
> 
> Wladimir
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Weekly development meetings on IRC

[Wladimir J. van der Laan]

On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 03:51:29PM +0200, gb wrote:
> 
> Although the planning for this a bit far along now, one consideration I
> might add from experience on working with other transglobal IT projects

Nah, we can always change the scheduling later... But let's first try it out with one time.

W