From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ABC7B486 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 10:56:40 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from outmail148098.authsmtp.com (outmail148098.authsmtp.com [62.13.148.98]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB1B712E for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 10:56:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-c247.authsmtp.com (mail-c247.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.247]) by punt21.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id u5NAucRd034946; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 11:56:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from petertodd.org (ec2-52-5-185-120.compute-1.amazonaws.com [52.5.185.120]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id u5NAuX9h076142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jun 2016 11:56:34 +0100 (BST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by petertodd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 83DA54010E; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 10:54:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6C30520217; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 06:56:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 06:56:32 -0400 From: Peter Todd To: Justin Newton Message-ID: <20160623105632.GB19241@fedora-21-dvm> References: <20160621221347.GC10196@fedora-21-dvm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="8P1HSweYDcXXzwPJ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Server-Quench: 27080f68-3931-11e6-bcde-0015176ca198 X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at: http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR aQdMdAEUEkAaAgsB AmAbWlVeVVt7WmY7 bghPaBtcak9QXgdq T0pMXVMcUQAWcFlp D0YeVR9zcwcIeXpz ZkIsXHdbVEQsc05g QUdXFHAHZDJmdTJM BBVFdwNVdQJNeEwU a1l3GhFYa3VsNCMk FAgyOXU9MCtqYAlL TwdFKFUITA4TBDkk QAsPEX0FPHVNSjUv Iho9K1kaBw4NNQ0Y EGNpAQpHa3c8 X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1038:706 X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255) X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 52.5.185.120/25 X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own anti-virus system. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Even more proposed BIP extensions to BIP 0070 X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 10:56:40 -0000 --8P1HSweYDcXXzwPJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 05:14:31PM -0700, Justin Newton wrote: > On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev < > Hi Peter, > Certainly AML/KYC compliance is one of the use cases that BIP 75 and o= ur > certificates can support. As a quick summary, >=20 > There are individuals and entities that would like to buy, sell, and use > bitcoin, and other public blockchains, but that have compliance > requirements that they need to meet before they can do so. Similarly, > companies and entrepreneurs in the space suffer under the potential threat > of fines, or in extreme cases, jail time, also for not meeting AML or > sanctions list compliance. We wanted to build tools that allowed > entrepreneurs to breathe easy, while at the same time allow more people a= nd > companies to enter the ecosystem. We also believe that the solution we a= re > using has the characteristics that you want in such a solution, for examp= le: >=20 > 1> Only the counterparties (and possibly their service providers in the > case of hosted services) in a transaction can see the identity data, > protecting user privacy. >=20 > 2> The counterparties themselves (and possibly their service providers in > the case of hosted services) decide whether identity information is > required for any given transaction. >=20 > 3> No trace is left on the blockchain or anywhere else (other than with t= he > counterparties) that identity information was even exchanged, protecting > fungibility >=20 > 4> The solution is based on open source and open standards, allowing open > permissionless innovation, versus parties building closed networks based = on > closed standards. The very fact that this solution went through the BIP > process and was adapted based on feedback is an example of how this is > better for users than the inevitable closed solution that would arise if > the open source, community vetted version didn=E2=80=99t already exist. >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t know if you are opposed to organizations that have AML re= quirements > from using the bitcoin blockchain, but if you aren=E2=80=99t, why wouldn= =E2=80=99t you > prefer an open source, open standards based solution to exclusionary, > proprietary ones? In some (most?) countries, it is illegal to offer telecoms services without wiretap facilities. Does that mean Tor builds into its software "open sourc= e" "open standards" wiretapping functionality? No. And interestingly, people trying to add support for that stuff is actually a thing that keeps happeni= ng in the Tor community... In any case, I'd strongly argue that we remove BIP75 from the bips reposito= ry, and boycott wallets that implement it. It's bad strategy for Bitcoin develo= pers to willingly participate in AML/KYC, just the same way as it's bad for Tor = to add wiretapping functionality, and W3C to support DRM tech. The minor tacti= cal wins you'll get our of this aren't worth it. --=20 https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org --8P1HSweYDcXXzwPJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJXa8BdAAoJEGOZARBE6K+yvo4H/05eb599DjPEuI8XHMoQkWFO 97jeVUmb2z1VNAb99nM2uff/Wu3759b9jhtVAEz6PfztPQZGVq+sZNf+m7+XlNL7 BqFK+psWGXbNinsXfuYoYHc62P92vePb0l7X1uHaS8A4vlm6igCDm+rYiUCovCq5 vt+c2GrPfjgi1h9MYHEhApP3kzWegTejEW1Ud9y0iF+B/z9HGEyR/foCEybAhGH8 ckveWW9DgSeN25SsCG2uEUFyySv7KAk+NQpA82f/k7gt64rusCzWAZzQa5KwMlFM 20JYMu6jw0TpIgla8Sn/hfHeHm8zhzb8IODh2rOHSzHCCkb5ORms9pz2kLE+HXk= =JNhK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --8P1HSweYDcXXzwPJ--