From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0B2EF46 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2018 15:48:19 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from zinan.dashjr.org (zinan.dashjr.org [192.3.11.21]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 164515FF for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2018 15:48:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ishibashi.localnet (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:5:265::71]) (Authenticated sender: luke-jr) by zinan.dashjr.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 65C8738A0C5C; Wed, 7 Mar 2018 15:48:02 +0000 (UTC) X-Hashcash: 1:25:180307:jan.capek@braiins.cz::WxPmlI2=pTV33/LG:asV=m X-Hashcash: 1:25:180307:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org::fSRxEdCVfh7DYcss:8s7s From: Luke Dashjr To: Jan =?utf-8?q?=C4=8Capek?= Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 15:48:00 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (Linux/4.15.1-gentoo; KDE/4.14.37; x86_64; ; ) References: <201803071443.13417.luke@dashjr.org> <20180307164349.1cfa51b3@glum> In-Reply-To: <20180307164349.1cfa51b3@glum> X-PGP-Key-Fingerprint: E463 A93F 5F31 17EE DE6C 7316 BD02 9424 21F4 889F X-PGP-Key-ID: BD02942421F4889F X-PGP-Keyserver: hkp://pgp.mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <201803071548.01405.luke@dashjr.org> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, URIBL_DBL_SPAM, URIBL_RHS_DOB autolearn=no version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP proposal: Reserved nversion bits in blockheader - stratum mining.configure X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2018 15:48:20 -0000 On Wednesday 07 March 2018 3:43:49 PM Jan =C4=8Capek wrote: > Our reasoning for coming up with a new method for miner configuration > was stated here: https://github.com/slushpool/stratumprotocol/issues/1 This reasoning is not sound. > It is primarily the determinism of expecting the response. That is > the reason why we chose a new method mining.configure instead of an > existing mining.capabilities that was not being very well documented or > used. It was as well documented as the original stratum protocol, and in use sinc= e=20 2014. While the response type is admittedly undefined, simply defining that would= =20 have been a better solution than to reinvent it incompatibly for no reason.= =20 (Although version rolling does not actually require a response at all.) >=20 >=20 > On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 14:43:11 +0000 Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev >=20 > wrote: > > Why are you posting this obsolete draft? You've already received > > review in private, and been given useful suggestions. There's even a > >=20 > > shared Google Doc with the current draft: > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GedKia78NUAtylCzeRD3lMlLrpPVBFg= 9T > > V9LRqvStak/edit?usp=3Dsharing > >=20 > > Again: > >=20 > > * This is no different from what Timo and Sergio proposed years ago, > > and as such should be based on their work instead of outright > > not-invented-here respecification. The current draft integrates their > > work while not trying to steal credit for it (they are included as > > primary authors). > >=20 > > * The specification should be complete, including updates for GBT and > > the Stratum mining protocol. These are included in the current draft. > >=20 > > Additionally, it is not appropriate to begin using a draft BIP on > > mainnet before any discussion or consensus has been reached. Doing so > > seems quite malicious, in fact. I hope DragonMint miners can still > > operate using the *current* Bitcoin protocol. > >=20 > > Luke > >=20 > > On Wednesday 07 March 2018 8:19:57 AM Btc Drak via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > > Hi, > > >=20 > > > The following proposal reduces the number of version-bits that can > > > be used for parallel soft-fork signalling, reserving 16 bits for > > > non-specific use. This would reduce the number of parallel > > > soft-fork activations using versionbits to from 29 to 13 and > > > prevent node software from emitting false warnings about unknown > > > signalling bits under the versionbits signalling system (BIP8/9). I > > > chose the upper bits of the nVersion, because looking at the > > > versionbits implementation in the most widely deployed node > > > software, it is easier to implement than say annexing the lower 2 > > > bytes of the field. > > >=20 > > > The scope of the BIP is deliberately limited to reserving bits for > > > general use without specifying specific uses for each bit, although > > > there have previously been various discussions of some use-cases of > > > nVersion bits including version-rolling AsicBoost[1], and nonce > > > rolling to reduce CPU load on mining controllers because > > > ntime-rolling can only be done for short periods otherwise it could > > > have negative side effects distorting time. However, specific use > > > cases are not important for this BIP. > > >=20 > > > I am reviving discussion on this topic now, specifically, because > > > the new DragonMint miner uses version-rolling AsicBoost on > > > mainnet[2]. It is important to bring up so node software can adapt > > > the versionbits warning system to prevent false positives. This BIP > > > has the added advantage that when a new use for bits is found, > > > mining manufacturers can play in the designated area without > > > causing disruption or inconvenience (as unfortuntely, the use of > > > version-rolling will cause until BIP8/9 warning systems are > > > adapted). I appologise for the inconvenience in advance, but this > > > is the unfortunate result of restraints while negotiating to get > > > the patent opened[3] and licensed defensively[4] in the first place. > > >=20 > > > I believe there was a similar proposal[5] made some years ago, > > > before the advent of BIP9. This proposal differs in that it's > > > primary purpose is to remove bits from the versionbits soft-fork > > > activation system and earmark 16 bits for general use without > > > allocating fixed uses for each bit. The BIP cites a couple of > > > usecases for good measure, but they are just informational > > > examples, not part of a specification laid down. For this reason, > > > there no is mention of the version-rolling Stratum extension[6] > > > specifics within the BIP text other than a reference to the > > > specification itself. > > >=20 > > > Refs: > > >=20 > > > [1] https://arxiv.org/pdf/1604.00575.pdf > > > [2] > > > https://halongmining.com/blog/2018/03/07/dragonmint-btc-miner-uses-ve= rs > > > ion-> rolling-asicboost/ [3] > > > https://www.asicboost.com/single-post/2018/03/01/opening-asicboost-fo= r-> > > defe nsive-use/ [4] https://blockchaindpl.org/ [5] > > > https://github.com/BlockheaderNonce2/bitcoin/wiki [6] > > > http://stratumprotocol.org/stratum-extensions > > >=20 > > > 
> > >=20
> > >   BIP: ?
> > >   Title: Reserved nversion bits in blockheader
> > >   Author: BtcDrak 
> > >   Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
> > >=20
> > >   Comments-URI:
> > > https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/wiki/Comments:BIP-???? Status: Draft
> > >=20
> > >   Type: Informational
> > >   Created: 2018-03-01
> > >   License: BSD-3-Clause
> > >  =20
> > >            CC0-1.0
> > >=20
> > >
> > >=20 > > > =3D=3DAbstract=3D=3D > > >=20 > > > This BIP reserves 16 bits of the block header nVersion field for > > > general purpose use and removes their meaning for the purpose of > > > version bits soft-fork signalling. > > >=20 > > > =3D=3DMotivation=3D=3D > > >=20 > > > There are a variety of things that miners may desire to use some of > > > the nVersion field bits for. However, due to their use to coordinate > > > miner activated soft-forks, full node software will generate false > > > warnings about unknown soft forks if those bits are used for non > > > soft fork signalling purposes. By reserving bits from the nVersion > > > field for general use, node software can be updated to ignore those > > > bits and therefore will not emit false warnings. Reserving 16 bits > > > for general use leaves enough for 13 parallel soft-forks using > > > version bits. > > >=20 > > > =3D=3DExample Uses=3D=3D > > >=20 > > > The following are example cases that would benefit from using some > > > of the bits from the nVersion field. This list is not exhaustive. > > >=20 > > > Bitcoin mining hardware currently can exhaust the 32 bit nonce field > > > in less than 200ms requiring the controller to distribute new jobs > > > very frequently to each mining chip consuming a lot of bandwidth and > > > CPU time. This can be greatly reduced by rolling more bits. Rolling > > > too many bits from nTime is not ideal because it may distort the > > > timestamps over a longer period. > > >=20 > > > Version-rolling AsicBoost requires two bits from the nVersion field > > > to calculate 4-way collisions. Any two bits can be used and mining > > > equipment can negotiate which bits are to be used with mining pools > > > via the Stratum "version-rolling" extension. > > >=20 > > > =3D=3DSpecification=3D=3D > > >=20 > > > Sixteen bits from the block header nVersion field, starting from 13 > > > and ending at 28 inclusive (0x1fffe000), are reserved for general > > > use and removed from BIP8 and BIP9 specifications. A mask of > > > 0xe0001fff should be applied to nVersion bits so bits 13-28 > > > inclusive will be ignored for soft-fork signalling and unknown > > > soft-fork warnings. > > >=20 > > > This specification does not reserve specific bits for specific > > > purposes. > > >=20 > > > =3D=3DBackwards Compatibility=3D=3D > > >=20 > > > This proposal is backwards compatible, and does not require a soft > > > fork to implement. > > >=20 > > > =3D=3DReferences=3D=3D > > >=20 > > > [[bip-0008.mediawiki|BIP8]] > > > [[bip-0009.mediawiki|BIP9]] > > > [https://arxiv.org/pdf/1604.00575.pdf AsicBoost white paper] > > > [https://github.com/BlockheaderNonce2/bitcoin/wiki nNonce2 proposal] > > > [http://stratumprotocol.org/ Stratum protocol extension for > > > version-rolling] > > >=20 > > > =3D=3DCopyright=3D=3D > > >=20 > > > This document is dual licensed as BSD 3-clause, and Creative Commons > > > CC0 1.0 Universal. > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > bitcoin-dev mailing list > > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev