From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BDC13EE for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 09:37:30 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail.ruggedbytes.com (mail.ruggedbytes.com [88.99.30.248]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D386E7C for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 09:37:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.ruggedbytes.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.ruggedbytes.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14404260052E; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 09:37:28 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=simplexum.com; s=mail; t=1564133848; bh=ac0kbTVYsrvU32NDhw3YryEJdYGywO0W+6AggFq/LSQ=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=NkWyGfHRa0XIz2PzNRbZZWvcBQQHMQClBAdtRIX8VENDIN92+khikIGqlpSuh/Abt mzmZj578mWq1dHpW/xQ3VA/S9SS4rf3uDRF4JH5jSH5BqbTT9CEtQdMAYOYkPuh4em 6FCOavxfJIAZZp786WTQfEBo2nzYv03pYRwHMyLY= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 14:38:38 +0500 From: Dmitry Petukhov To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org Message-ID: <20190726143738.0be561da@simplexum.com> In-Reply-To: <94534006-D560-4C90-9D5D-A3A64B698518@gmail.com> References: <985792b1-e7aa-677b-a7a1-6a5f672da884@riseup.net> <94534006-D560-4C90-9D5D-A3A64B698518@gmail.com> Organization: simplexum.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="Sig_/tNv36iXbK27npzZX+8KtQVZ"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 14:38:45 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Improving JoinMarket's resistance to sybil attacks using fidelity bonds X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 09:37:30 -0000 --Sig_/tNv36iXbK27npzZX+8KtQVZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =D0=92 Fri, 26 Jul 2019 10:10:15 +0200 Tamas Blummer via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Imposing opportunity costs however requires larger time locked > amounts than burning and the user might not have sufficient funds to > do so. This is however not a restriction but an opportunity that can > give rise to an additional market of locking UTXOs in exchange of a > payment. >=20 > This would give rise to a transparent interest rate market for > Bitcoin an additional huge benefit. Wouldn't that 'locked utxo rent' market just drive the cost of attack down to manageable levels for the attacker ? The owner of the locked utxo can derive potential profit from it by being a maker, and then the profit will be reduced by operational expenses of running a maker operation. The owner of utxo can just 'outsource' that task to someone, and pay some fee for the convenience. In effect, the owner would be renting out that utxo for the price of - - If the attacker is the entity who provides this 'maker outsourcing', and it captures significant portion of that maker-outsourcing/utxo-rent market, it can even receive some profit from the convenience fee, while deanonymizing the joins. And with pseudonymous entities, you cannot be sure how much of that market the attacker controls. --Sig_/tNv36iXbK27npzZX+8KtQVZ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: Цифровая подпись OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEsXo1u6GHOVeE4qazIwHSa9wVFg0FAl06yh4ACgkQIwHSa9wV Fg3LFw//fMROZ8e9MLL3SPZvXGH2Xcyx4tV0V7kbYi+9mFnZj0LZRuE9o/dkKo07 nAlPyi5Ev38IlXO88M2g4RMsvZvysGKgo+zsPqh1u1jfd0bVsJjIdOqrFQNEoB80 0o3Af+nYaGthSlYWza67K6QvBOR4j/mYMKlMduAmYjSOf/Hu9mNKaJVq5fv31sW7 DnI7t9WnbLlYLs1VeK8bNwnf03UdzPSou16VqwdHTZrtoZJlsoYp1qd6LkITmgWO OtSFpFXxZnHAZkbL3m+40giRBjakaWFLkUxV6gLShlwwV8qgj7QNvTzA5txs7Jum knBFdEAnvFuif1uzMnuf9hWeOvKkRVMXv9TEbjCJDFwEY237Mi63Xc9E/x4htY+0 Z4L9rwAXzs5b1lvYD0v9WvTeY6tT6APUaPyboJuk04JreLLIfBd3nHJ+i0F42Gfx CDEbQxasOgafPh3A/YutZa9St0YYjpXwhR+PY+E5n5rDHbmssS/btDT1OpH4hNNI iwz5X2f0c6un5X+AuZbDR8yrilhT9tENhv6BICPYrx/14ETKK3mNDgQH5DdV//dU 7fUT4FoUyGde06Qq5zYkDUpmjTualVAY6MHpp6/MTTsXLTc39P9mrtWOH9HZ6MmZ f6sEnWyfhHahLirj/GE2Lu3IEM4kLEUQmSl+NfHw65s94UR67ns= =RcPl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/tNv36iXbK27npzZX+8KtQVZ--