From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from fraxinus.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [140.211.166.137]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0432C013A for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 16:59:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fraxinus.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A721985815 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 16:59:14 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org Received: from fraxinus.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id apkJb7bEviIK for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 16:59:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: delayed 00:24:41 by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from newmail.dtrt.org (newmail.dtrt.org [45.79.129.87]) by fraxinus.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9579E857CB for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 16:59:13 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dtrt.org; s=20201208; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID: Subject:To:From:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=sMLfGKUA3WuMXD5mR3HtMU3aXDA2JOelTuUkN/wpX5o=; b=suveiQFEAgYq20rSEEY7WFgXje X33eoYOAFXU7niJSBqOKnegApJJ7V3JLaEvYDb8bgSNE8ztFSzZgy6A1EysDwlQ1pwrXF3Wn8gtPv 39QsdsfGAZLrL6YwDvIV/byjTcgWK1SN4re1DJxktiyyD5rPcJVlGRGmbv/F+3xlQVf8=; Received: from harding by newmail.dtrt.org with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lAxsN-0006MV-3o; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:34:31 -1000 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:32:57 -1000 From: "David A. Harding" To: Michael Folkson , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Message-ID: <20210213163257.uvn4apdy4znr7p2t@ganymede> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="7lax3t3xsv5ows3j" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot activation meeting 2 - Tuesday 16th February 19:00 UTC X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 16:59:14 -0000 --7lax3t3xsv5ows3j Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Feb 05, 2021 at 12:43:57PM +0000, Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev w= rote: > https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/lcjhl6/taproot_activation_pools= _will_be_able_to_veto/gm2l02w/ > [...]=20 > F6) It is more important that no rules that harm users are deployed > than it is that new useful rules are deployed quickly. If there is a > choice between =E2=80=9Cfaster=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cmore clear that this= isn=E2=80=99t a mechanism to > force bad things on users=E2=80=9D we should prefer the latter. Plenty of > people just don=E2=80=99t like LOT=3Dtrue very much absent evidence that = miners > are blocking deployment. To some it just feels needlessly antagonistic > and distrusting towards part of our community. I think F6, above, bundles together several of Maxwell's points and maybe loses something in summary. I'd encourage interested readers to view the original post that Folkson referenced. I'd like to extract one part as a separate point and write about it a bit in my own words: F7) defaulting to LOT=3Dfalse makes non-activation possible even if people run the code that developers provide, meaning a successful activation proves that at least some people (e.g. miners or UASFers) voluntarily took actions that were well outside the scope of developer control. This makes it clear that developers don't control changes to the system. There are other arguments that demonstrate that developers aren't in control[1], but they aren't as clear as simply pointing out that a rule change won't go into effect until at least several non-developers independently act of their own accord. Having such a clear argument that developers aren't in control bolsters the decentralized ethos of Bitcoin and reduces the chance that bad actors will pressure Bitcoin developers to attempt future unwanted changes. =20 -Dave [1] IMO, the main evidence we have that developers aren't in control of the system is that Bitcoin Core is free software which gives anyone who obtains a copy of it the legal right to run it, learn from it, modify it, and share additional copies of it for any purpose. Each time someone uses those rights to create alternative Bitcoin implementations, altcoins, or forkcoins, they demonstrate that users could change the system---or resist changes to it---in opposition to the current developer team, should that become necessary. --7lax3t3xsv5ows3j Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEgxUkqkMp0LnoXjCr2dtBqWwiadMFAmAn/zkACgkQ2dtBqWwi adMyzw/+NAe/Ml43V/Fp9cHsfRqCvlshW8zaIDt44W78lXxhiqNcapB6HsOlBNMK F09EUAvpmBRHYGwwMXkVN8ddA5c/Wta78PH0vez4sBN6W80BufApv/fGBOWBnQXz o0HcpPTupXpvPhMYa0yyrDHri3+6nEw2Undze1crYkW/SQwZCxOnccpPJ8pi7ZXV FDWeDdlOblA5YrtBeLZ7783aBHBqI5eUGvzRgP/CCxU1y8pnP//cJSFaUsCUX2pZ at6tYBMpQ6OmvjE4A4AA5KPReew+1T8pATQ3QoLrD8fSOoZjF32a8LwHgY4Xvinw 4OKvBreMcOzEQS1ybxnSat9fqoADDEEDISFxYeSmP+6nbrdAONjXRZNZALDvbMne 8U1CL4ZlbIWACeMAuJTFvkO7PYwPMHUfHsCk0tskNlPs4i/c+9F6EguGAY2bOLo/ bL1AdWBwkim/QLbmX864JgHpEGUS4pfe0DQNboAaM1UoftfkrUAiAEY+OKbVOxpS ZY5YDbboME0fP4LwLHhyblx5apxODqk5b0i0VXYdvWuSlrrL8prg4yKOFQHFfHt1 os0lbyM5BlLgp9qj7NWywEbtddtoMbgzxJlYByskj+JyuvGOdjuPVw/K1xInpKM4 tkikbVvF9AKiEAKKadIUe8qzU0Txl/7b1+Ajr5SOUdsRLkA19DQ= =7Fuz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --7lax3t3xsv5ows3j--