From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::137]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6222C0001 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2021 18:23:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0C8A4EC06 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2021 18:23:46 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp4.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=dashjr.org Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZDvBFA6Mldzo for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2021 18:23:45 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from zinan.dashjr.org (zinan.dashjr.org [192.3.11.21]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76A964EBC8 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2021 18:23:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ishibashi.lan (unknown [12.190.236.207]) (Authenticated sender: luke-jr) by zinan.dashjr.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8A68138A00A8; Fri, 5 Mar 2021 18:17:55 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=dashjr.org; s=zinan; t=1614968314; bh=wdmftta9JjzeIBZZslz6PiHWCKxQM/8erAWJRNZE/fo=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Cc:References:In-Reply-To; b=n42X4+kW7iaFLGw1jgKLyzqYteGgAp0Qx8flmffdjye5WP/ntyjQYdv1G5Bx3yUhX N4aRMgTC7W9XoBSsY/KjG7wsIS4BTTWpUBXkZdkqV9yUrO4kt0cjB/YKsQjKM51HDJ 9B1ghaWF2wqhOh+nflNsuaeZ2SwPCyabwJAL0Ei4= X-Hashcash: 1:25:210305:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org::7hh6jd6P9E5KXhS3:SkVr X-Hashcash: 1:25:210305:bitcoin-dev@rgrant.org::R=QavTZJM=CcElgg:artwr X-Hashcash: 1:25:210305:keagan.mcclelland@gmail.com::s6aLLidVA5brSN=M:ayfWB From: Luke Dashjr To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Ryan Grant Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2021 18:17:40 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 References: <3286a7eb-9deb-77d6-4527-58e0c5882ae2@riseup.net> In-Reply-To: X-KMail-QuotePrefix: > MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <202103051817.40615.luke@dashjr.org> Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Making the case for flag day activation of taproot X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2021 18:23:47 -0000 On Friday 05 March 2021 14:51:12 Ryan Grant via bitcoin-dev wrote: > On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 7:32 PM Keagan McClelland via bitcoin-dev > > wrote: > > So that leads me to believe here that the folks who oppose LOT=true > > primarily have an issue with forced signaling, which personally I > > don't care about as much, not the idea of committing to a UASF from > > the get go. > > The biggest disconnect is between two goals: modern soft-fork > activation's "Don't (needlessly) lose hashpower to un-upgraded > miners"; and UASF's must-signal strategy to prevent inaction. > > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2020-January/017547 >.html > > This question dives to the heart of Bitcoin's far-out future. > Of two important principles, which principle is more important: > > - to allow everyone (even miners) to operate on the contract they > accepted when entering the system; or There was never any such a contract. Even full nodes must upgrade in a softfork, or they lose their security and become comparable to light wallets. > - to protect against protocol sclerosis for the project as a whole? What? > Do miners have a higher obligation to evaluate upgrades than economic > nodes implementing cold storage and infrequent spends? If they do, > then so far it has been implicit. LOT=true would make that obligation > explicit. Miners either make valid blocks or they don't. The only thing they "need" to evaluate is the market for their work. Luke