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* [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining
@ 2021-03-04 23:42 Lonero Foundation
  2021-03-05 13:42 ` Ryan Grant
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread
From: Lonero Foundation @ 2021-03-04 23:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: bitcoin-dev

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Hello, I want to start a new BIP proposal aiming to tackle some of the
energy efficiency issues w/ Bitcoin mining. Excuse my ignorance given this
is my first time making a BIP proposal, but is there a specific format I
need to follow? Do I just make a draft on my personal GitHub or need to
attach the README?

Anyways my idea is centered around a hybrid mining integration w/ POW/PoST
for BTC's SHA-256 hash algorithm. The integration is actually a
cryptography proof. While I would prefer a soft fork integration, a vastly
different cryptography proof without affecting the current node integration
is less than feasible.

Anyways, I do want to submit my document explaining everything and how all
this would work. I am mostly a Quantum Engineer and Bioinformatics
consultant for a living, so I think what I can propose to an extent may be
of interest to some.

Best regards,
Andrew M. K. Nassief

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining
@ 2021-03-05 20:53 Eric Voskuil
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread
From: Eric Voskuil @ 2021-03-05 20:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lonero Foundation, Bitcoin Protocol Discussion; +Cc: Devrandom

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Hi Andrew,

Do you mean that you can reduce the cost of executing the cryptography at a comparable level of security? If so this will only have the effect of increasing the amount of it that is required to consume the same cost.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Efficiency-Paradox

You mentioned a staking hybrid in your original post.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Hybrid-Mining-Fallacy

This would be a change to dynamics - the economic forces at work. Staking is not censorship resistant

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Proof-of-Stake-Fallacy

and is therefore what I refer to as cryptodynamically insecure.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Cryptodynamic-Principles

As such it wouldn’t likely be considered as a contribution to Bitcoin. It might of course be useful in some other context.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Shitcoin-Definition

But BIPs are proposals aimed at Bitcoin improvement.

https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0001.mediawiki#What_is_a_BIP

Non-staking attempts to improve energy efficiency are either proof of work in disguise, such as proof of memory:

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Proof-of-Memory-Fallacy

or attempts to repurpose “wasteful” computing, such as by finding prime numbers, which does not imply a reduction in dedicated energy consumption.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Dedicated-Cost-Principle

Finally, waste and renewable energy approaches at “carbon” (vs energy) reduction must still consume the same in cost as the reward. In other words, the apparent benefit represents a temporary market shift, with advantage to first movers. The market will still consume what it consumes. If the hashing energy was free all reward consumption would shift to operations.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Byproduct-Mining-Fallacy

The motivation behind these attempts is naively understandable, but based on a false premise.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Energy-Waste-Fallacy

The one thing that reduces Bitcoin energy consumption is an increase in energy cost relative to block reward.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Energy-Exhaustion-Fallacy

e

> On Mar 5, 2021, at 07:30, Lonero Foundation via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi, this isn't about the energy efficient argument in regards to renewables or mining devices but a better cryptography layer to get the most out of your hashing for validation. I do understand the arbitrariness of it, but do want to still propose a document. Do I use the Media Wiki format on GitHub and just attach it as my proposal?
> 
> Best regards, Andrew
> 
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:07 AM Devrandom <c1.devrandom@niftybox.net> wrote:
>> Hi Ryan and Andrew,
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 5:42 AM Ryan Grant via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>   https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/
>>>     "Nothing is Cheaper than Proof of Work"
>>>     on | 04 Aug 2015
>> 
>> Just to belabor this a bit, the paper demonstrates that the mining market will tend to expend resources equivalent to miner reward.  It does not prove that mining work has to expend *energy* as a primary cost.
>> 
>> Some might argue that energy expenditure has negative externalities and that we should move to other resources.  I would argue that the negative externalities will go away soon because of the move to renewables, so the point is likely moot. 
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <CA+YkXXzfEyeXYMyPKL20S+2VVRZVuHRT6eRgX56FBgG_A+uVSw@mail.gmail.com>]

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-03-17  7:06 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 37+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-03-04 23:42 [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining Lonero Foundation
2021-03-05 13:42 ` Ryan Grant
     [not found]   ` <CAB0O3SVNyr_t23Y0LyT0mSaf6LONFRLYJ8qzO7rcdJFnrGccFw@mail.gmail.com>
2021-03-05 15:12     ` Lonero Foundation
2021-03-05 16:16       ` Lonero Foundation
2021-03-05 21:11         ` Keagan McClelland
2021-03-05 21:21           ` Lonero Foundation
2021-03-06  0:41             ` Keagan McClelland
2021-03-06  0:57               ` Lonero Foundation
2021-03-06 15:21                 ` Ricardo Filipe
     [not found]                   ` <CA+YkXXyP=BQ_a42J=RE7HJFcJ73atyrt4KWKUG8LbsbW=u4b5w@mail.gmail.com>
2021-03-08 23:40                     ` Lonero Foundation
2021-03-11 15:29                       ` Lonero Foundation
2021-03-12 15:02                         ` Erik Aronesty
2021-03-12 16:54                           ` Lonero Foundation
2021-03-12 22:37                             ` email
2021-03-12 23:21                               ` Lonero Foundation
2021-03-12 23:31                                 ` Lonero Foundation
2021-03-13  8:13                                   ` email
2021-03-13 15:02                                     ` Lonero Foundation
2021-03-13 15:45                                       ` yancy
2021-03-13 17:11                                         ` Lonero Foundation
2021-03-13 19:44                                           ` email
2021-03-14  5:45                                             ` Lonero Foundation
2021-03-17  0:24                                       ` Erik Aronesty
2021-03-17  5:05                         ` ZmnSCPxj
2021-03-17  5:59                           ` Lonero Foundation
2021-03-17  6:56                             ` ZmnSCPxj
2021-03-17  7:06                               ` Lonero Foundation
2021-03-14 12:36         ` LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
2021-03-14 14:32           ` Thomas Hartman
2021-03-16 18:22             ` Lonero Foundation
2021-03-15  2:02           ` Eric Martindale
2021-03-15  2:32             ` Lonero Foundation
     [not found]               ` <CA+YkXXyMUQtdSvjuMPQO71LpPb8qFdy-LTSrA8FEbeWMbPWa4w@mail.gmail.com>
2021-03-15  2:58                 ` Lonero Foundation
2021-03-05 20:53 Eric Voskuil
     [not found] <CA+YkXXzfEyeXYMyPKL20S+2VVRZVuHRT6eRgX56FBgG_A+uVSw@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found] ` <12480994-451A-4256-8EFA-4741B3EC2006@voskuil.org>
2021-03-05 22:03   ` Lonero Foundation
2021-03-05 22:49     ` Eric Voskuil
2021-03-05 23:10       ` Lonero Foundation

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