Antoine,
Perhaps it would be an idea to write a gist or some other public facing page with what you need from volunteers, so it's kind of step by step?
Unlike Peter in this thread, I think most people would want/have to set up new nodes to do this.
You have said: Current and default installs of Core/btcd + lnd/cln/ldk . I know that e.g. Core has some pretty non-trivial choices but I guess we can stick religiously to whatever is default.
But other details like:
amount in channels - does it matter?
How many channels? Channels of specific types (thinking e.g. unannounced)
Should volunteers have channels with each other? is there any aspect of topology you require?
Network connectivity - I guess it's not important, but just in case worth mentioning, e.g. should/should not use Tor etc.
Forgive me if some of the questions are ignorant, I have not paid a ton of attention to the discussion around these attacks.
waxwing/AdamISZ
On Thursday, October 10, 2024 at 6:29:02 PM UTC-6 Antoine Riard wrote:
Hi all,
> If you have an on-chain donation address on the OTS website (?), I'll make a
> $100 donation now, it's a nice tool. And for the justice transaction...well
> for some scenarios you can use the latest valid commitment state to pin no risk
> of being slashed by a justice transaction.
Been late on demonstrating a real-world pinning attack against a production lightning
node. But I swear it's real sport having to jungle with more than one category of
exploit to soundly test.
OTS is a great project. I'll make a donation to it of 1 gram of gold or the equivalent
in fiats or satoshis at settlement (as $100 sounds to be almost equal to 1 gram of gold,
i.e $84.66 those days) for each month late on doing a demonstrationg of real-world pinning
attack, as a lateness penalty.
Beyond it's a great tool to make notarization of any kind of digital info, inside the
chain where for every block there are probably two-digit terawatt hours burnt, which
starts to be a f*cking lot of hydro power plants.
More generally, I called since late 2020 at least for making real-world demonstration
of pinning attacks against lightning nodes, among others types of cross-layers attacks,
At the exception of 2 ligthning protocol devs if my memory is correct, all the others
ones since then have shunned away from participating in a real-world demo, and Peter
Todd was the first one to consent and make available a lightning node available for
real-world demos in a "black box" fashion (indeed, it's far easier to execute exploits
on testing envs fully set by the researcher...).
In the future, I believe it can only be great if bitcoin security exploits are gauged
more or less on the lines of artifacts available, evaluated and reproduced, as done
usually by major infosec confs.
Best,
Antoine
ots hash: 9d227f7832154c4c8bce9fce260ac84537489c1bc8c4b8c2ba990ceb197c84fc
Le mardi 3 septembre 2024 à 21:13:46 UTC+1, Antoine Riard a écrit :
> That also happens to be my Alice OpenTimestamps calendar, in production, so
> please don't do anything you expect to be CPU or RAM intensive. But if you
> accidentally take down the server, not the end of the world: OTS is a very
> redundant protocol and one calendar going down for a few hours is unlikely to
> do any harm.
>
> It has about $400 of outgoing capacity at the moment, and $2000 inbound. It
> gets hardly any donations at the moment, so if you manage to knock LND offline
> that's no big deal.
>
> That's not my money - it's donations to the OTS calendars that I have no right
> to spend - so I'll ask you to pay for any expenses incurred by it during
> testing, and make a $100 net donation when you're done testing to make it
> worthwhile for the OTS community. If you manage to lose more than that on
> justice transactions, I'll consider that a donation. :)
Many thanks Peter for that.
No worries, I won't play with CPU or RAM, it's just all the transaction-relay
and mempool logic that one can interfere with. I'll make you whole of the $2400
if the LND node goes down too hard, though I'm just looking for a node running
on mainnet, for a pinning the attacker has two open to channels and re-balance
the liquidity at its advantage a bit. I'll provide the liquidity by myself.
If you have an on-chain donation address on the OTS website (?), I'll make a
$100 donation now, it's a nice tool. And for the justice transaction...well
for some scenarios you can use the latest valid commitment state to pin no risk
of being slashed by a justice transaction.
Best,
Antoine
ots hash: 19d9b61ed5238e2922205a0a0194e0830b260a691f45b4189b1d145f72c9e031
On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 02:10:15PM -0700, Antoine Riard wrote:
> My utmost pleasure to demonstrate some pinning attacks on nodes under
> real-world conditions.
Antoine Riard: until Oct 1st, you have permission to test your attacks against
my Lightning node running at:
023345274dd80a01c0e80ec4892818878...@alice.opentimestamps.org:9735
That also happens to be my Alice OpenTimestamps calendar, in production, so
please don't do anything you expect to be CPU or RAM intensive. But if you
accidentally take down the server, not the end of the world: OTS is a very
redundant protocol and one calendar going down for a few hours is unlikely to
do any harm.
It has about $400 of outgoing capacity at the moment, and $2000 inbound. It
gets hardly any donations at the moment, so if you manage to knock LND offline
that's no big deal.
That's not my money - it's donations to the OTS calendars that I have no right
to spend - so I'll ask you to pay for any expenses incurred by it during
testing, and make a $100 net donation when you're done testing to make it
worthwhile for the OTS community. If you manage to lose more than that on
justice transactions, I'll consider that a donation. :)
--
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org