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[2003:dd:6712:6425:e9a7:d1e9:d253:3603]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s12sm1856686wmh.34.2019.07.02.02.47.04 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 02 Jul 2019 02:47:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Tamas Blummer Message-Id: <36BCB402-E236-41D7-8211-7DCDF0F34243@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B0E3B760-B5FF-4C17-8E9C-F52DA1B5DADF"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 11:47:09 +0200 In-Reply-To: <38FAD812-A764-49F5-BA80-ED10685A1714@gmail.com> To: ZmnSCPxj References: <0DBC0DEA-C999-4AEE-B2E1-D5337ECD9405@gmail.com> <3F46CDD5-DA80-49C8-A51F-8066680EF347@voskuil.org> <063D7C06-F5D8-425B-80CE-CAE03A1AAD0C@voskuil.org> <0AA10217-E1CC-46D1-9B43-038CEEF942CD@gmail.com> <0Bwi2ejRw4BgoABZ0X0kBdwLAkIKEv1svoyi0zqGQPeqV1g8xR43tBMgYoS52Vcxkgj7DndmNLIje40au51trIGTvrpcet8GivTgqysVC8w=@protonmail.com> <0190F226-7133-4B6D-8750-25CAB5C73D17@gmail.com> <7E8yyDSqmXEfFtcZRx2vdmPuovamf67X6aDHrokgaYScm01zPivVKpI3Br2PrzBdVdvKBqECP96EFB5ebT8sPfMWU8npJwS_wujFs00bcqU=@protonmail.com> <38FAD812-A764-49F5-BA80-ED10685A1714@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 02 Jul 2019 13:00:30 +0000 Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Generalized covenants with taproot enable riskless or risky lending, prevent credit inflation through fractional reserve X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2019 09:47:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B0E3B760-B5FF-4C17-8E9C-F52DA1B5DADF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello ZmnSCPxj, I share your goal to move everything possible off-chain. The discussion of covenant is not an on/off-chain discussion, but if = covenant is needed to solve problems we currently can not and which = unlock significant innovation. Consensus support of the covenant is only needed if an unchained setup = using it is closed uncooperatively, otherwise there is not even a reason = to disclose on-chain that a covenant was used. Regards, Tamas Blummer > On Jul 2, 2019, at 11:30, Tamas Blummer = wrote: >=20 > Hello ZmnSCPxj, >=20 >> On Jul 2, 2019, at 10:12, ZmnSCPxj wrote: >>=20 >> As a counterargument, I observe that committing to the advertisement = on the UTXO is similar to committing to a SCRIPT on a UTXO. >> And I observe the Graftroot idea, wherein we commit to a public key = on the UTXO, and admit a SCRIPT that is signed by the public key as a = SCRIPT that unlocks the UTXO for spending. >>=20 >> By analogy, in my "advertising" scheme, instead of committing the = advertisement on the UTXO, I can instead commit a public key (for = example, the hash of the "advertiser pubkey" is used to tweak the = onchain public key). >> Then we use this advertiser pubkey to admit advertisements on the = advertising network. >>=20 >> This advertiser pubkey is used to sign an "advertisement chain", = which is a merklized singly-linked list whose contents are the actual = advertisements, each node being signed using the advertiser pubkey. >> To ensure that the advertiser does not sign multiple versions of this = chain, we can have the signing nonce be derived from the height of the = advertchain, such that signing the same height multiple times leads to = private key revelation. >=20 > The advertiser would thereby put the funds of the HODLer on risk of = his misbehavior, which means the HODLer would have to trust the = advertizing service. > This is not the trustless separation the covenant achives. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Tamas Blummer >=20 --Apple-Mail=_B0E3B760-B5FF-4C17-8E9C-F52DA1B5DADF Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEE6YNJViYMM6Iv5f9e9nKRxRdxORwFAl0bKB0ACgkQ9nKRxRdx ORwEOAf+NPe1ugzzTSSj2dmuRj4NA106y3mxa47/kcHKO9lcMFMF8N/aryr7x7ir eKC3fLyX1j1c7c7X1ZBWlVfvZA0fbAlU2rXtLTTSG2D2CwATU5QAdhDKZNa0lvTH R3VhYmxmUPa0HjRHcMIX/6ZSxyXWW0kjO1bxg0+cXAT35MkGlaXcuioTVRgbLYNw UBDiLCanX+2UwsJpZJLTp+cBrjGYprBQPxEIsaQzIsr1sLrXz5CFHsNLFr3VX1Di MHbgR1xOLIhcs5oLrpnloGoXwx3+IKw9zwOM1he1z8YSf9MVPpe8IcuGIigwZ+A4 xwIlb2NfBlrksMJ2ylLZiK20Mvf6mA== =PpIq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_B0E3B760-B5FF-4C17-8E9C-F52DA1B5DADF--