From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Z409j-0002pn-0v for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 14 Jun 2015 05:08:27 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.220.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.53; envelope-from=elombrozo@gmail.com; helo=mail-pa0-f53.google.com; Received: from mail-pa0-f53.google.com ([209.85.220.53]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1Z409h-00006M-WA for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Sun, 14 Jun 2015 05:08:27 +0000 Received: by padev16 with SMTP id ev16so45133907pad.0 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 22:08:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.70.42.37 with SMTP id k5mr37097891pdl.13.1434258500366; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 22:08:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.102] (cpe-76-167-237-202.san.res.rr.com. [76.167.237.202]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id bs3sm8168529pbd.47.2015.06.13.22.08.18 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 13 Jun 2015 22:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E2741506-8317-4BFA-9B92-1F238E2B6B65"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5b6 From: Eric Lombrozo In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 22:08:16 -0700 Message-Id: <3BB36FC7-9212-42A1-A756-A66929C15D4F@gmail.com> References: <20150612181153.GB19199@muck> To: Chun Wang <1240902@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (elombrozo[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature 0.2 AWL AWL: Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address X-Headers-End: 1Z409h-00006M-WA Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] User vote in blocksize through fees X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 05:08:27 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E2741506-8317-4BFA-9B92-1F238E2B6B65 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Chun, With all due respect, there are a couple major differences between BIP34 = and BIP66 on the one hand and BIP100 on the other. 1) BIP34 and BIP66 are soft forks. Miners choosing to switch to them = will not seriously impact validation rules for non-mining users that do = not make the switch. With BIP66, the worst that can happen to them is = noncompliant transactions will no longer be accepted by the = network=E2=80=A6but even nodes that do not switch over will continue to = remain synched with the network. 2) BIP100 has direct economic consequences=E2=80=A6and particularly for = miners. It lends itself to much greater corruptibility. - Eric Lombrozo > On Jun 13, 2015, at 9:55 PM, Chun Wang <1240902@gmail.com> wrote: >=20 > To tell you the truth. It is only because most miners are not located > in the West. If Slush, Eligius and BTC Guild still on top 3, the core > developers, including brain-dead Mike Hearn, would be very happy to do > BIP100 just like they did BIP34 and BIP66. Shame on you! >=20 > On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 6:20 AM, Danny Thorpe = wrote: >> Please forgive my ignorance, but why should Bitcoin users have a say = in >> block size limits? It's the miners and Bitcoin node operators that = bear the >> burden of managing large blocks, no? >>=20 >> Users voting on network parameters sounds like neighbors voting on = how deep >> my swimming pool should be. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> -Danny >>=20 >> On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Peter Todd = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Jeff Garzik recently proposed that the upper blocksize limit be = removed >>> entirely, with a "soft" limit being enforced via miner vote, = recorded by >>> hashing power. >>>=20 >>> This mechanism within the protocol for users to have any influence = over >>> the miner vote. We can add that back by providing a way for = transactions >>> themselves to set a flag determining whether or not they can be = included >>> in a block casting a specific vote. >>>=20 >>> We can simplify Garzik's vote to say that one of the nVersion bits >>> either votes for the blocksize to be increased, or decreased, by = some >>> fixed ratio (e.g 2x or 1/2x) the next interval. Then we can use a >>> nVersion bit in transactions themselves, also voting for an increase = or >>> decrease. Transactions may only be included in blocks with an >>> indentical vote, thus providing miners with a monetary incentive via >>> fees to vote according to user wishes. >>>=20 >>> Of course, to cast a "don't care" vote we can either define an >>> additional bit, or sign the transaction with both versions. Equally = we >>> can even have different versions with different fees, broadcast via = a >>> mechanism such as replace-by-fee. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> See also John Dillon's proposal for proof-of-stake blocksize voting: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> = https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg= 02323.html >>>=20 >>> -- >>> 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org >>> 0000000000000000127ab1d576dc851f374424f1269c4700ccaba2c42d97e778 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bitcoin-development mailing list >>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Bitcoin-development mailing list >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >>=20 >=20 > = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development --Apple-Mail=_E2741506-8317-4BFA-9B92-1F238E2B6B65 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJVfQxAAAoJEJNAI64YFENUA6UP/0MOEM5rOT3hkj6gps6HlEJx 4/e6ouIdhmaQiUtF7SRyV450Zxm1M3IODB3cVIpx18t7yp+J7V9SZ8O2SHYj+ZKv la0godaJnlvhwyCZZFhrYDvaW38OYxvBZj4M+xtYGzYO/29Ujcj3Zr4oPOTZ/Vs+ PwegWHbreeRQriQWrViLgWZIjmHD/rehxKfAWa715+hQLwf7KaJXiiiSaUcFMy2K DlqubRapre+tDJ15S3S7GXAhKgQcrGZgJNyy+l9yronX6rQ2X2uj1Wgv2pxT2bhE 8D14/9hlEWwMF4R2Cx8re/hkfVqN/9+s3GVPuGoUt9i1iaoeS+jX8uuXPNPp3RK/ Lz7QsrV6GzYO2FwrJUtaAnKsZQ9hC2G7vbqmyFeFBRYZnnEixvCx823fNY8WXDxb rBquUIcQbwsmc/+XPDKXOe8UbzxhD666G64cU3DtEnmCO3JG5ai8NvQa0IT+epWO 5ea0tuqWtqAaMFFdLBVmllUCFviPDitnh3rgWNhVfY8F8TJEI4kNvCUtduyrbdou 3J/UhAI0OWKlJcJS+5/szTpo65jQ2swENPtj6VtNo8Bcr5rTueBpWrUoKrtyMEzK Y2l8lEYrlHJjwEOmCqVOPQzYUgWvQQiYFGosrs7Orpx/QYgyfnfPBbLzzK10+TWc EJAVuMVBalQwG6boI5oA =A+i3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_E2741506-8317-4BFA-9B92-1F238E2B6B65--