From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1WYCSx-0003Ml-EE for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 10 Apr 2014 10:44:19 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from wp059.webpack.hosteurope.de ([80.237.132.66]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76) id 1WYCSv-0005ZT-JK for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 10 Apr 2014 10:44:19 +0000 Received: from [37.143.74.116] (helo=[192.168.2.2]); authenticated by wp059.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) id 1WYCSo-0006Pm-U9; Thu, 10 Apr 2014 12:44:10 +0200 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E48B5024-ABCD-409E-BC99-911BB51CD00E"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.2 \(1874\)) From: Tamas Blummer In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2014 12:44:32 +0200 Message-Id: <3DB84423-BAEB-4290-B43C-7A3B07141844@bitsofproof.com> References: <53456B99.9010207@monetize.io> <00b77560-d7ed-4ed4-a4e5-eb1f00467a06@email.android.com> <0509477C-89F9-47C7-8820-29ACAD4A4A8E@bitsofproof.com> <534592E2.7040800@gmail.com> <5345986C.3040901@gmail.com> <77889B25-03D6-4401-A5FE-432976951F55@bitsofproof.com> <5EA7E1CA-2673-49D4-A1C4-015117E5133D@bitsofproof.com> To: Mike Hearn X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1874) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; tamas@bitsofproof.com; 1397126657; 3a5db896; X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Headers-End: 1WYCSv-0005ZT-JK Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2014 10:44:19 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E48B5024-ABCD-409E-BC99-911BB51CD00E Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6C44A698-DEA9-4F83-A0D2-7EE12D916455" --Apple-Mail=_6C44A698-DEA9-4F83-A0D2-7EE12D916455 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Thanks, Peter and you convinced me. I run away with a thought. It=92d be great to find a spot to deploy payment channels, but I agree = this is not it. Tamas Blummer http://bitsofproof.com On 10.04.2014, at 12:40, Mike Hearn wrote: > 1) There is no catch 22 as there are plenty of ways getting bitcoin = without bootstrapping a full node. >=20 > I think I maybe wasn't clear. To spend coins you need transaction = data. Today, the dominant model is that people get that data by scanning = the block chain. If you can obtain the transaction data without doing = that then, either: >=20 > 1) Someone is doing chain scanning for free. See my point about "why = pay if you can get it for free". >=20 > 2) You got your tx data direct from the person you who sent you the = funds, perhaps via the payment protocol. This would resolve the catch 22 = by allowing you to spend bitcoins without actually having talked to the = P2P network first, but we're a loooooong way from this world. >=20 > And that's it. I don't think there are any other ways to get the tx = data you need. Either someone gives it to you in the act of spending, or = someone else gives it away for free, undermining the = charge-for-the-p2p-network model. --Apple-Mail=_6C44A698-DEA9-4F83-A0D2-7EE12D916455 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Thanks, Peter and you convinced me. I run away = with a thought.

It=92d be great to find a spot = to deploy payment channels, but I agree this is not it.


On 10.04.2014, at 12:40, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:

1) There is no catch 22 as there are = plenty of ways getting bitcoin without bootstrapping a full node.

I= think I maybe wasn't clear. To spend coins you need transaction data. = Today, the dominant model is that people get that data by scanning the = block chain. If you can obtain the transaction data without doing that = then, either:

1) = Someone is doing chain scanning for free. See my point about "why pay if = you can get it for free".

2) You got your tx data direct from the person you who sent you the = funds, perhaps via the payment protocol. This would resolve the catch 22 = by allowing you to spend bitcoins without actually having talked to the = P2P network first, but we're a loooooong way from this world.

And = that's it. I don't think there are any other ways to get the tx data you = need. Either someone gives it to you in the act of spending, or someone = else gives it away for free, undermining the charge-for-the-p2p-network = model.

= --Apple-Mail=_6C44A698-DEA9-4F83-A0D2-7EE12D916455-- --Apple-Mail=_E48B5024-ABCD-409E-BC99-911BB51CD00E Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTRnYQAAoJEPZykcUXcTkcFqcIAMk1aNDQmWqFvMCr0IoO88Pv aJLVLoNZM2NfahG85q1xi7NwWaVMFF5jHSJtR3tXvZF/6lwlXCU9DJROqQAeOWvT KTG0zxjI47+J2yGyC6Tr/XuYaG/APca7ix+P3Kv5yTnuY28iloseYKykwM1O4weZ V4qZ0KXrHTPmLIWNUJTo5Ut77zzK1f3o1tsGsYuUDBpoFXD1IQAlE94HOM6Jq9eO No0I53Ejm1ua+FfGQTjOLt1OS/yUsJ1uvYibdT/Dt8fd6jrOms3aG8+L2KkqUCxg kZk08h33DdfibYQ/APq7C2JBuqZgQ1VXx7XQ5iqHr5y7Q5JxH62V6v6BPIox+PU= =Hj0A -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_E48B5024-ABCD-409E-BC99-911BB51CD00E--