From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Delivery-date: Mon, 06 May 2024 02:48:03 -0700 Received: from mail-yb1-f185.google.com ([209.85.219.185]) by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1s3ux1-000241-2O for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Mon, 06 May 2024 02:48:03 -0700 Received: by mail-yb1-f185.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-de59e612376sf2850310276.3 for ; Mon, 06 May 2024 02:48:02 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1714988876; cv=pass; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=TPTw4sixpPO+e/xxDY+sO8zdsioHWnTRmRRRXzjNz5/WSwI0+Qu8YWdrY/OriiGe8n n6A/Msa8v5Brb00H4tJhgpk1FZR+FS1pDpSVDt/Z05kveJ0JSHaWS4yVsZFpWonGea5s gPzcPwqRR/BQfJWaDXY0taJDS8pUkw/QjKe5ZHAIIhvaoOeIpgMZ1Gr5cjhucyOkcbos LwTwBZpJ+rX5kZ8arIVYdjfznuf3Fb96DMDI18IlbQKQA8pKzbIf3IfEQ2vchMZMA6MX arvyTkgOZXD3HIi8uPfJbiMUdhbyxgW+LouO9PfHB6UyDPCyC97m1+Z0kUX/uqeZHEhu jEZg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:message-id:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:date:mime-version:sender :dkim-signature; bh=Sm9VirmVXMHp+Y54dBZXoNDYnRtzxBz8Gdh9bOVzjx4=; fh=5dKhmIH4OT+pc3Uh5hwxhRnrJEkSYTTmJ5w4ihPB4TE=; b=OycjZDXcRc52+HKFpSkwG1rfgX2UA+KWOOUAXvj7rhte6a/eCyc71n735Dw33Z6toc O9/Tp+oW5b7T2FfDBTBin6Ak083H6Tn/c5wv74b2WN/RRPkKaF1fk77sYNjIArxzK/2o 5yBmTuHWtepeMwtRVu3p79IONR2MdsCPHKlUeagbM7G8aib/SY1oj9IZVIzjQZgN+fnk A4ghUBbYz0KqF4su73A6s3K0doBd2WuyuCvTxjHaRGOMEWP8vnARkhvCqUa8p4ajrsw3 UmtKfwgdo2JhLpk27sizDkKwioEbEPeD1IkhoxGw9j71AttICHdMGpeyRyXwCpHn5qlM q/ZA==; darn=gnusha.org ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dave@dtrt.org designates 208.79.240.5 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dave@dtrt.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1714988876; x=1715593676; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:message-id:user-agent:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:date:mime-version:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=Sm9VirmVXMHp+Y54dBZXoNDYnRtzxBz8Gdh9bOVzjx4=; b=EmlQJDjilKTVHx+uqERXs54Kfi8By8EgG2e1KLIPyNKhrMz9gZtB5zQm9IiVj2rn2E txOQt/CRdUZ0DBSOVNqZcup03ljVPFB8oiiJIRaFV5XojaA+7i7BvEQxg3Fs0iI4qrIG JHSFZ3DxxGBJ2dMZO1o5BznP13fFKsXS+S29Dg3uJGbxE0xzE+99Bno1gCLfFxPFMVFE vRChZbGpxgdYhxJaY2VPdofu4qsNnSm2z1iWbjwNyYNCNup/+UCdxJ4ND7EmO521UXpr YT+ZPVeEBVHZ80kN0F9MWLwk0TKzipYir/wG2qlNgnf0VecJpLHsM622NW+qhWEvIpgl nyEg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1714988876; x=1715593676; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results :x-original-sender:message-id:user-agent:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:date:mime-version:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state :sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Sm9VirmVXMHp+Y54dBZXoNDYnRtzxBz8Gdh9bOVzjx4=; b=kAh4Oycr/Vf0lTrodR8MxK+kO6Jwy2yHwndbBYRPlDEWLIXAXFYwwP29xktyhBA01H /hOTnOLGgeQd6LO+39c/7ChSKesve3qclSnzaFhoY+XkqGxhCU9bwYd6L+792TbRjiYS nbEmoJpGLI7FuINDVfvrMu2EwLxZ/Kx2E5mTxSSi8LQ46TiLvbTn8TCAnXVe5woCPVd7 G5KMZCqv1oKv6Qgy9uybvr6Y0hIRxSW4625Vakj2g5VNMeT/69YTbMG6u7D4jO5SCy4D wUE5KdT2xLGdsoVnTkwrdP4lFcR+C8sr+Ohuh1tYZawxf/peQxruSgopZbcR51H4dnMT 2aOg== Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCXc0quCar+ACeK4wcb29i71v2WjPWtb8QCO/Js64fI9x37W1dHmWhgsgEy58ZQb+OZQAHs9yFUmXY/pWwmTUWr76pWufRY= X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz6coBFKmFQ3QIaZUZalAUqNgAri78O7ANf7vOI6tYu6EoRJxYI 3t+ZA8MIFuRc0DZ2DLEMUDE4BjKrqzZySqE7I2y524B5pxPHiKuj X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHOKDR5S1MLgSlicIBfBsAJ7tlQDTFmgrbpvV+HkxnGuCUDGpFdgeSia0NNZppCFMfYYTjgSg== X-Received: by 2002:a25:aa2e:0:b0:de8:9854:f8ca with SMTP id s43-20020a25aa2e000000b00de89854f8camr9505501ybi.3.1714988876635; Mon, 06 May 2024 02:47:56 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Received: by 2002:a25:c583:0:b0:de5:b132:90f0 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-de8b50529ecls2798242276.0.-pod-prod-07-us; Mon, 06 May 2024 02:47:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCUPp4qWC3GoiT6mK090kd3RGURBoByWAD1UM3mZt31tpTIlfnD6UhH9IxCA1lS3fCen7kOKK7NntPfNz7DDmOh0flgr/ctIWceTCEo= X-Received: by 2002:a0d:d74c:0:b0:618:8e4b:f49d with SMTP id z73-20020a0dd74c000000b006188e4bf49dmr2628894ywd.4.1714988875129; Mon, 06 May 2024 02:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 2002:a05:690c:f88:b0:620:4018:7c57 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-62040188055ms7b3; Mon, 6 May 2024 00:39:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCX3daQiYibXYK6aHdcD9ODLG+F/9R8TZyZ+FeZVD2J17hXpwbhNhCIENAFjjqvujiHuqW/dVXRNomp4SuYc6niuUiwT/3rEvz12KnE= X-Received: by 2002:a25:d850:0:b0:dcd:4e54:9420 with SMTP id p77-20020a25d850000000b00dcd4e549420mr8918314ybg.5.1714981198250; Mon, 06 May 2024 00:39:58 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1714981198; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=PbYfibhAeqMAtBwGk7jcci4bxlXFj7Dlz57QGBslvPc4V7yUnDxADkq0hvFDP1DKdn 1SiqKumRkVoUFDWLi/nPf7LdowqfG1V0Z14u3/juk3LHJfIUcvWk8TID3ZlB3H8zZ6Yg BQTq77JYsUQmJVxhqXAOTwQR38xupmXDaCZknjXg0EF6kaJtTPbE/vg4aU/2RA9vOjEB nVZPki++CbxwrKe/dv2hEtSUfwbMQWDnVa8W2GnE8cWZftHol0uLuzQEsfom/ldRkuiz CIeqLvz942n8aaYhHB8niP01rD+2jo7XhWIINjeqPTQfwylLYIYQnid7xdpNwq5hA9LW Ntgg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=content-transfer-encoding:message-id:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:date:mime-version; bh=y6daA+qzTcoJrF6uJfxcnXh8VfE3oWjec0BCaxGWmAQ=; fh=7X/T3vDOuSsw+eb9K8ToPWxv0dJ42tB8e+eDY0O9f90=; b=zO2r75WGdxPunfHTbWp8NJQM5xQ0wE91LLiOTjPDnrMg/hEnjqSc2PoqWJ64Mpa6d1 U131ITJ74xZIAViEZh5auDn/7jxOGzrt8+ttrHGVL6ouf7K0kQpPSsQU10DaSqMZ0kVv bsxmZShZj5wSz1qT8O6vxtYMeo1XA4XauGRMwuEGZIBouaVm2XiDo+S65I0Z1aiSUClc FqTP0SMMwa6QKPS6rhYhAo/M6EYBqgwM0sLpTs0MwDKyfKhe7nGfD2dDLTSLoIpP8mrt EqfOIpxuuHSragKdmQCk9jN0HC+ubVfOWpiRTBuZ/HtzSok11BzyRAhCy6ZJ2OUP95dF gD5Q==; dara=google.com ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dave@dtrt.org designates 208.79.240.5 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dave@dtrt.org Received: from smtpauth.rollernet.us (smtpauth.rollernet.us. [208.79.240.5]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w65-20020a25df44000000b00de5a41a17b3si1013953ybg.1.2024.05.06.00.39.57 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 06 May 2024 00:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dave@dtrt.org designates 208.79.240.5 as permitted sender) client-ip=208.79.240.5; Received: from smtpauth.rollernet.us (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtpauth.rollernet.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9423F2800098; Mon, 6 May 2024 00:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.rollernet.us (webmail.rollernet.us [IPv6:2607:fe70:0:14::a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtpauth.rollernet.us (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Mon, 6 May 2024 00:39:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 21:39:51 -1000 From: "David A. Harding" To: Andrew Poelstra Cc: Matthew Zipkin , Ethan Heilman , Bitcoin Development Mailing List Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Signing a Bitcoin Transaction with Lamport Signatures (no changes needed) In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.4.15 Message-ID: <47711dc4ffe9d661e8321b05b6adab4e@dtrt.org> X-Sender: dave@dtrt.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed X-Rollernet-Abuse: Contact abuse@rollernet.us to report. Abuse policy: http://www.rollernet.us/policy X-Rollernet-Submit: Submit ID 4d26.66388947.1ed77.0 X-Original-Sender: dave@dtrt.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dave@dtrt.org designates 208.79.240.5 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dave@dtrt.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) On 2024-04-30 04:21, Andrew Poelstra wrote: > Another reason this is useful is that if you have a Lamport signature > on > the stack which is composed of SIZE values, all of which are small > enough to be manipulated with the numeric script opcodes, then you can > do covenants in Script. Hi Andrew, I don't understand the above. I think of a covenant as a script that is able to restrict the scriptPubKey of the transaction that spends it. As I understand Heilman's description, a lamport signature commits to the size of an ECDSA signature (which can naturally vary) and the ECDSA signature commits to the spending transaction. Performing the lamport verification on the stack is practically equivalent to OP_CHECKSIGFROMSTACK, which is half of what you need for a covenant. As you've previously described[1], the other half is some method for introspection. How do lamport signatures offer introspection when they're restricted to committing to ECDSA signatures that can't be known at the time a script is created due to circular dependency in hashing (i.e., the ECDSA signature commits to the spending transaction, which commits to the previous transaction's txid, which commits to the script)? Thanks!, -Dave [1] https://medium.com/blockstream/cat-and-schnorr-tricks-i-faf1b59bd298 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/47711dc4ffe9d661e8321b05b6adab4e%40dtrt.org.