From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1RmxB2-0002XS-V6 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 00:45:28 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.213.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.213.47; envelope-from=etotheipi@gmail.com; helo=mail-yw0-f47.google.com; Received: from mail-yw0-f47.google.com ([209.85.213.47]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1RmxB1-0006Tr-V2 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 00:45:28 +0000 Received: by yhfq46 with SMTP id q46so1562131yhf.34 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2012 16:45:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.236.146.4 with SMTP id q4mr19907066yhj.105.1326761122578; Mon, 16 Jan 2012 16:45:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.85] (c-76-111-108-35.hsd1.md.comcast.net. [76.111.108.35]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m36sm13298919anq.0.2012.01.16.16.45.21 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 16 Jan 2012 16:45:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4F14C4EF.5070709@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 19:46:39 -0500 From: Alan Reiner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111108 Thunderbird/3.1.16 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net References: <1326665394.7032.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1326760227.63298.YahooMailNeo@web121006.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1326760227.63298.YahooMailNeo@web121006.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050105070408000209050103" X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (etotheipi[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1RmxB1-0006Tr-V2 Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] bitcoin.org SOPA/PIPA blackout X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 00:45:29 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050105070408000209050103 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You guys are representing both extremes of the issue. In response to Jeff and Luke-Jr, I don't see how this is /just any other poltical issue/. It strikes at the heart of everything Bitcoin is about. Barring Bitcoin-specific legislation, I don't see how any legislation could be more relevant to Bitcoin and the community around it. On the other hand, Bitcoin is still a non-entity, and shouldn't get in the business of making statements. A central voice for Bitcoin gives the impression that it is actually centralized, and one that has opinions. Plus I wouldn't be surprised if some, heavily-invested Bitcoin users were of the opinion that SOPA/PIPA/whatever could be a huge profit for themselves: once SOPA kicks in and businesses around the world start getting cut off for legit or illegitimate purposes, a lot of them could potentially switch to Bitcoin to keep their business going. That could be a huge boon for Bitcoin. You may not agree it's worth the tradeoff, but people are selfish and may not actually understand or even care about SOPA legislation itself. I think it's /not inappropriate/ for something to be mentioned on the website about Bitcoin's philosophy being threatened by SOPA, but I agree Bitcoin should avoid making any bold political stands. Users could be reminded that SOPA affects yet another thing they care about, but it might be better to avoid it altogether. If any response is made, it should be a very light one. -Alan On 01/16/2012 07:30 PM, Amir Taaki wrote: > Bunk argument. This is an issue that affects bitcoin directly. > > Wikipedia has far more need to remain neutral and apolitical than bitcoin ever does- you've read Satoshi's politically charged whitepaper or seen the genesis block quote. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOPA_initiative/Action > > The Wikipedia community decided on a full and global blackout. Bitcoin should do the same in unison with the rest of the web- sites like Reddit, 4chan and Wikipedia. > > It's funny / almost comical how you consign this to being just another issue or case of moral alarm. Sad. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff Garzik > To: Amir Taaki > Cc: "bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 10:37 PM > Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] bitcoin.org SOPA/PIPA blackout > > On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Amir Taaki wrote: >> How is this not the most important world issue right now? >> >> EVERYTHING is under threat. Go nuclear to show our nerd-rage. >> >> Everybody blank your personal sites too. Americans, take to the streets. World, go scream at the US embassy. > > There are always issues that raise ire and moral outrage. I would > rather that bitcoin.org stay apolitical -- our users will appreciate > this in the long run. > --------------050105070408000209050103 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You guys are representing both extremes of the issue.  In response to Jeff and Luke-Jr, I don't see how this is just any other poltical issue.  It strikes at the heart of everything Bitcoin is about.  Barring Bitcoin-specific legislation, I don't see how any legislation could be more relevant to Bitcoin and the community around it.

On the other hand, Bitcoin is still a non-entity, and shouldn't get in the business of making statements.  A central voice for Bitcoin gives the impression that it is actually centralized, and one that has opinions.  Plus I wouldn't be surprised if some, heavily-invested Bitcoin users were of the opinion that SOPA/PIPA/whatever could be a huge profit for themselves:  once SOPA kicks in and businesses around the world start getting cut off for legit or illegitimate purposes, a lot of them could potentially switch to Bitcoin to keep their business going.  That could be a huge boon for Bitcoin.  You may not agree it's worth the tradeoff, but people are selfish and may not actually understand or even care about SOPA legislation itself.

I think it's not inappropriate for something to be mentioned on the website about Bitcoin's philosophy being threatened by SOPA, but I agree Bitcoin should avoid making any bold political stands.  Users could be reminded that SOPA affects yet another thing they care about, but it might be better to avoid it altogether.  If any response is made, it should be a very light one.

-Alan


On 01/16/2012 07:30 PM, Amir Taaki wrote: 
Bunk argument. This is an issue that affects bitcoin directly.

Wikipedia has far more need to remain neutral and apolitical than bitcoin ever does- you've read Satoshi's politically charged whitepaper or seen the genesis block quote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOPA_initiative/Action

The Wikipedia community decided on a full and global blackout. Bitcoin should do the same in unison with the rest of the web- sites like Reddit, 4chan and Wikipedia.

It's funny / almost comical how you consign this to being just another issue or case of moral alarm. Sad.



----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@exmulti.com>
To: Amir Taaki <zgenjix@yahoo.com>
Cc: "bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] bitcoin.org SOPA/PIPA blackout

On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Amir Taaki <zgenjix@yahoo.com> wrote:

How is this not the most important world issue right now?

EVERYTHING is under threat. Go nuclear to show our nerd-rage.

Everybody blank your personal sites too. Americans, take to the streets. World, go scream at the US embassy.


There are always issues that raise ire and moral outrage.  I would
rather that bitcoin.org stay apolitical -- our users will appreciate
this in the long run.

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