From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Rmyt2-0005WM-SV for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 02:35:00 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.213.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.213.175; envelope-from=da2ce7@gmail.com; helo=mail-yx0-f175.google.com; Received: from mail-yx0-f175.google.com ([209.85.213.175]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1Rmyt1-0005yf-NO for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 02:35:00 +0000 Received: by yenr5 with SMTP id r5so1583015yen.34 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2012 18:34:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.236.131.12 with SMTP id l12mr19132260yhi.111.1326767694299; Mon, 16 Jan 2012 18:34:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.1.1.30] (124-170-5-29.dyn.iinet.net.au. [124.170.5.29]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g13sm35240995ank.21.2012.01.16.18.34.50 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 16 Jan 2012 18:34:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4F14DE54.9010804@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 13:35:00 +1100 From: Cameron Garnham User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111222 Thunderbird/9.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net References: <1326665394.7032.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1326760227.63298.YahooMailNeo@web121006.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4F14C4EF.5070709@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030805010805080400050002" X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (da2ce7[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in digit (da2ce7[at]gmail.com) 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1Rmyt1-0005yf-NO Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] bitcoin.org SOPA/PIPA blackout X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 02:35:01 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030805010805080400050002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that bitcoin.org should remain apolitical. However maybe it would be good if the blackout to take effect on bitcointalk.org if theymos and Sirius believes it is appropriate. Bitcoin.org should provide bitcoin. On 17/01/2012 11:59 AM, slush wrote: > > I agree Bitcoin should avoid making any bold political stands. > > I agree on this. Please don't turn Bitcoin project/homepage into some > political agitation. Not everybody care about political attitude of > main project developers. > > slush > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 1:46 AM, Alan Reiner > wrote: > > You guys are representing both extremes of the issue. In response > to Jeff and Luke-Jr, I don't see how this is /just any other > poltical issue/. It strikes at the heart of everything Bitcoin is > about. Barring Bitcoin-specific legislation, I don't see how any > legislation could be more relevant to Bitcoin and the community > around it. > > On the other hand, Bitcoin is still a non-entity, and shouldn't > get in the business of making statements. A central voice for > Bitcoin gives the impression that it is actually centralized, and > one that has opinions. Plus I wouldn't be surprised if some, > heavily-invested Bitcoin users were of the opinion that > SOPA/PIPA/whatever could be a huge profit for themselves: once > SOPA kicks in and businesses around the world start getting cut > off for legit or illegitimate purposes, a lot of them could > potentially switch to Bitcoin to keep their business going. That > could be a huge boon for Bitcoin. You may not agree it's worth > the tradeoff, but people are selfish and may not actually > understand or even care about SOPA legislation itself. > > I think it's /not inappropriate/ for something to be mentioned on > the website about Bitcoin's philosophy being threatened by SOPA, > but I agree Bitcoin should avoid making any bold political > stands. Users could be reminded that SOPA affects yet another > thing they care about, but it might be better to avoid it > altogether. If any response is made, it should be a very light one. > > -Alan > > > > On 01/16/2012 07:30 PM, Amir Taaki wrote: >> Bunk argument. This is an issue that affects bitcoin directly. >> >> Wikipedia has far more need to remain neutral and apolitical than bitcoin ever does- you've read Satoshi's politically charged whitepaper or seen the genesis block quote. >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOPA_initiative/Action >> >> The Wikipedia community decided on a full and global blackout. Bitcoin should do the same in unison with the rest of the web- sites like Reddit, 4chan and Wikipedia. >> >> It's funny / almost comical how you consign this to being just another issue or case of moral alarm. Sad. >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Jeff Garzik >> To: Amir Taaki >> Cc:"bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" >> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 10:37 PM >> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development]bitcoin.org SOPA/PIPA blackout >> >> On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Amir Taaki wrote: >>> How is this not the most important world issue right now? >>> >>> EVERYTHING is under threat. Go nuclear to show our nerd-rage. >>> >>> Everybody blank your personal sites too. Americans, take to the streets. World, go scream at the US embassy. >> There are always issues that raise ire and moral outrage. I would >> rather thatbitcoin.org stay apolitical -- our users will appreciate >> this in the long run. >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! > The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft > developers > is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, > MVC3, > Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! > The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers > is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, > Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d > > > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development --------------030805010805080400050002 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I think that bitcoin.org should remain apolitical.  However maybe it would be good if the blackout to take effect on bitcointalk.org if theymos and Sirius believes it is appropriate.

Bitcoin.org should provide bitcoin.




On 17/01/2012 11:59 AM, slush wrote:
>  I agree Bitcoin should avoid making any bold political stands. 

I agree on this. Please don't turn Bitcoin project/homepage into some political agitation. Not everybody care about political attitude of main project developers.

slush

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 1:46 AM, Alan Reiner <etotheipi@gmail.com> wrote:
You guys are representing both extremes of the issue.  In response to Jeff and Luke-Jr, I don't see how this is just any other poltical issue.  It strikes at the heart of everything Bitcoin is about.  Barring Bitcoin-specific legislation, I don't see how any legislation could be more relevant to Bitcoin and the community around it.

On the other hand, Bitcoin is still a non-entity, and shouldn't get in the business of making statements.  A central voice for Bitcoin gives the impression that it is actually centralized, and one that has opinions.  Plus I wouldn't be surprised if some, heavily-invested Bitcoin users were of the opinion that SOPA/PIPA/whatever could be a huge profit for themselves:  once SOPA kicks in and businesses around the world start getting cut off for legit or illegitimate purposes, a lot of them could potentially switch to Bitcoin to keep their business going.  That could be a huge boon for Bitcoin.  You may not agree it's worth the tradeoff, but people are selfish and may not actually understand or even care about SOPA legislation itself.

I think it's not inappropriate for something to be mentioned on the website about Bitcoin's philosophy being threatened by SOPA, but I agree Bitcoin should avoid making any bold political stands.  Users could be reminded that SOPA affects yet another thing they care about, but it might be better to avoid it altogether.  If any response is made, it should be a very light one.

-Alan



On 01/16/2012 07:30 PM, Amir Taaki wrote: 
Bunk argument. This is an issue that affects bitcoin directly.

Wikipedia has far more need to remain neutral and apolitical than bitcoin ever does- you've read Satoshi's politically charged whitepaper or seen the genesis block quote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOPA_initiative/Action

The Wikipedia community decided on a full and global blackout. Bitcoin should do the same in unison with the rest of the web- sites like Reddit, 4chan and Wikipedia.

It's funny / almost comical how you consign this to being just another issue or case of moral alarm. Sad.



----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@exmulti.com>
To: Amir Taaki <zgenjix@yahoo.com>
Cc: "bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] bitcoin.org SOPA/PIPA blackout

On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Amir Taaki <zgenjix@yahoo.com> wrote:

How is this not the most important world issue right now?

EVERYTHING is under threat. Go nuclear to show our nerd-rage.

Everybody blank your personal sites too. Americans, take to the streets. World, go scream at the US embassy.

There are always issues that raise ire and moral outrage.  I would
rather that bitcoin.org stay apolitical -- our users will appreciate
this in the long run.


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