From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D72F259 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2017 03:00:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-pg0-f52.google.com (mail-pg0-f52.google.com [74.125.83.52]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A8A612A for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2017 03:00:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pg0-f52.google.com with SMTP id g2so12986288pge.3 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 20:00:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=voskuil-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6wQQNNM+PSXSiczC4vJrJQD8W1YVCM0y7vKIBIqTkic=; b=TowOoOl6oWgb1n4z3VII255VDLbkvpZbQH+Ycim+vVSMDdPb2FGhX980PbzY3wQE5s FQhA7XmkIS8bP6Hvo2AD0a1CtORhH25gIP7hSOOPF/MvIX19zSw7Z21TEQhE0aWbDWPe TLRitfcfK3DizOyRXtstJs89/3dLDW6UIADHbV4Ve8GNO4gmjCXLE7Xyb94+y6KornZk pQKpC9F3sQrTsSlxKewTB8v6/lRFxsgXX3AKyp3pNyajf4eCANVyfRHqlQiX2o/p0C/P PQtu6mVACowGvXm6Qb0RTE+xLV2xEMlp6Opy+Wi5Qa1fCbuHuxnhqu7+xTwgfYJ9EshG i9hA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6wQQNNM+PSXSiczC4vJrJQD8W1YVCM0y7vKIBIqTkic=; b=FIlAwzLahyJvt7yhP8VJJUgTZahS0Tu6KgEdYNDEliubJ73by5YWukfoQSJcwsNtGP a4HsmEPGi0F9u+RGznSGfB4fLQlKCOOpOdC17qgDAm/F+xVYo1H7MASpOYgfNIBiQ4jI ri7V3PLiOz5l5dfHYBs22+uIrc7xOQulGG8AwDoh6doWoZ/pyRYiEagIPYqOv5p9ZAdp ieiPkKLnTvC3FXa6Xh19bwarDIvRn6/MGjaKw6QJ40NiN1hEp6g05LJOTbkA7EvvixL6 PP0FkDC8sb3PqcHFz1B0qOaybnNOKrzEpoe+ZpxT57ygYlzwX7NbKSzGOXK6ek1sTvZW wMlA== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H36vENBQFC3jqoGnkq1zpzKnkKZLTJoEUgw1rDTx0uHpNKaNj8xik3vX0nfQTsEyw== X-Received: by 10.98.155.28 with SMTP id r28mr17432904pfd.212.1490497232171; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 20:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:600:9000:d69e:9053:3eee:f863:4f1c? ([2601:600:9000:d69e:9053:3eee:f863:4f1c]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v11sm12869446pfk.32.2017.03.25.20.00.31 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 25 Mar 2017 20:00:31 -0700 (PDT) To: Peter R , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion References: <5b9ba6c4-6d8f-9c0b-2420-2be6c30f87b5@cannon-ciota.info> <35ba77db-f95a-4517-c960-8ad42a633ba0@gmail.com> <9C2A6867-470D-4336-8439-17F4E0CA4B17@gmx.com> From: Eric Voskuil X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <4b56bb5d-f2e4-1c68-2f64-20d631c69ffd@voskuil.org> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 20:00:51 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9C2A6867-470D-4336-8439-17F4E0CA4B17@gmx.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 03:44:48 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Two altcoins and a 51% attack (was: Defending against empty or near empty blocks from malicious miner takeover?) X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 03:00:33 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 03/25/2017 01:28 PM, Peter R via bitcoin-dev wrote: > In the case of the coming network upgrade to larger blocks, a primary concern [...] is the possibility of a blockchain split and the associated confusion, replay risk, etc. > [...] a minority that does not want to abide by the [hard fork] ruleset enforced by the majority could change the proof-of-work and start a spin-off from the existing Bitcoin ledger [...] The "spin off" to which you refer is an altcoin. The "network upgrade" to which you refer is also an altcoin. Both are hard forks from Bitcoin. I'm having a hard time imagining how a plan to create two new altcoins from Bitcoin avoids either a split or confusion. Application of hash power toward the disruption of Bitcoin presumes participating miners are willing to accept a total loss on these operations. I can imagine a significant portion of the hash power deciding to let their competitors donate to "confusion reduction". Eventually those thrifty miners will put the philanthropists out of business. Maybe you can get Coinbase and Bitpay to finance the operation . This plan seems to be a response to the industry call for replay protection. Actually writing the code is another option. > once a super-majority of the network hash power has upgraded. Despite the fact that nobody (miners included) has any way to measure what software the economy (or hash power) is running, or what is the economic weight of that portion of the economy. e -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJY1y7aAAoJEDzYwH8LXOFO9EMH/Aip84JpoYBM8/JIRpjq/wzp VBU9rwMrVwaKdt8IzdJIhaD8FAiXYmXP6xM3eYk5Jp5g67uBnlrmXqlM/IfHI374 sKvN2nyHNqng9citI6ZeR+B3xJ7oFzycKf+KnvKi5JnPEMuTYwIw+dvXJGvZdjeH WxW0g63KvfDPvYbYkE1hKnzUHWxGrR/Jrs898Cnwd0Z9OjrVNM3ZEix/IK4QrNRN e/xLXjuIDHx6nzbddbVOSsuxBDo0GZUufGM4zTrGG+kNy4xFWsfwaXlM6kHmRqGF 73PDFWzbiur4B0CoBA7zd2C2ErypKZOoM35rsvwZq/a23OlxH6Jds7+6jTwN9lQ= =0Bn2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----