From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Delivery-date: Sun, 04 May 2025 02:12:10 -0700 Received: from mail-yw1-f184.google.com ([209.85.128.184]) by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1uBVOL-0002GF-JP for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Sun, 04 May 2025 02:12:10 -0700 Received: by mail-yw1-f184.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-7080c0fe7b5sf49855047b3.2 for ; Sun, 04 May 2025 02:12:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1746349923; x=1746954723; darn=gnusha.org; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-sender:mime-version :subject:references:in-reply-to:message-id:to:from:date:sender:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=0eyVH5vuLQLJ8w2WF9EnSkTNj/OCqA2Y+hwX/VYUi8A=; b=AzFBJtdlSORwj4rwydyfklZEl+v0LOq+VOVQmMxRry0eobsPnNTv+HQ43S0uXMfC0b 0LuGBp5t/0qZ/DjzXtPAW0XNq1HQ8vNhuBEjf9LUdejJTRFORH+bEv6yDpxMAKfhEZ6L Fwe4YQsYtYTW6qcHOgcbWDtK06HV2Yd0Q38O1ErG/6vHYEiCv8mJPlYnV77oXPba+Ju4 Ar46Qv7SbXHT2eacXsFLl0OuuE2Fi/tWafBJOHXARe0MvZeUfHGfUA+7WbCuJfkAAHi4 prG0PkX/w+qtKJM4a0iA/1qYXr5ZM5DXl88b+SL2sW0bbO/hY7NTASUGIE1mqY5CFRWr I6nQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1746349923; x=1746954723; h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-sender:mime-version :subject:references:in-reply-to:message-id:to:from:date:x-beenthere :x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=0eyVH5vuLQLJ8w2WF9EnSkTNj/OCqA2Y+hwX/VYUi8A=; b=QW7DuNSbDEj0Ka87XMa2s9ENBNqiNZQ2uTpUl61XoBjBZmxuOgq6qGcjpvKYeZnVdm +cN28qkWkzHW5VX+6k8rnLycBfzfkvOYyi7tKSV6rHHTfXaWNjMgmdiCzb/BTqPOmxKO FBEldQFtdGrvjx7nYbAUuzJIGo0QLNey1Sd+i1QL+BoqoF3Q8w9OoAj1uUqyXCTVc9q3 wEgHdZtE26tvd6OCNED+17VPJGF9te4voYndc5FH+76qmkrehT8ZhrEnG8ZH++mgq47r +cyTmEcNmQg7xuqGGmBtyLDdJ1GgXsTJERJKtPBeMaC8W7F6+Fzg0+NYygsVkS7ZMoEw J35Q== Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXtYBcq/O8RE39trpXSlmKtZ4ViWwJ71VQh9MqDmk5P656JgBoau1dqw1ihu/+vbs0BvxWYbQ5II04H@gnusha.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxYCjVs3j7YJqqKRHsyx5QIR4uv6nBTh0HYTA4sBk8BXlkb+Sym dRQD+QM+rAocIuZgUtA4oN4GasjLszg7A8cqfO303hq/UAeppMly X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHCm8bO2wwERSyPhtGfZ8Z3H/2svzMNQkWyZo1cFGsmbNn2o5Ig46P39vD+llacVDQgwENO5w== X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:314:b0:708:f6d:b79f with SMTP id 00721157ae682-708eaf5c242mr40919847b3.29.1746349923400; Sun, 04 May 2025 02:12:03 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h=AVT/gBF6HgyyZEuqMbRiDGj3Yae2GbYF1sXWYij34901WZzKSg== Received: by 2002:a25:2d05:0:b0:e73:2ea4:55ac with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e74dcbaae19ls770974276.2.-pod-prod-07-us; Sun, 04 May 2025 02:11:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:6a02:b0:6fb:277f:f022 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-708eaee7098mr42245227b3.15.1746349918469; Sun, 04 May 2025 02:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 2002:a81:d448:0:b0:706:b535:945d with SMTP id 00721157ae682-708cfda3e38ms7b3; Sat, 3 May 2025 23:00:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:890:b0:6ef:7f89:d906 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-708eaf83999mr38682637b3.33.1746338412037; Sat, 03 May 2025 23:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 May 2025 23:00:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Hunter Beast To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Message-Id: <4f35a82a-bedb-4d4d-9de2-2dbc340b18acn@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: [bitcoindev] Re: Introducing Hourglass MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_151120_1499001427.1746338411725" X-Original-Sender: hunter@surmount.systems Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) ------=_Part_151120_1499001427.1746338411725 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_151121_636361332.1746338411725" ------=_Part_151121_636361332.1746338411725 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Trading volume is a good perspective to view this through, actually. If an= =20 attacker decides to consolidate immediately, they could do so within just a= =20 couple hours and suppress the Bitcoin price for a long time. > 1.7 million Bitcoin represents possibly about 1 week of global trading=20 volumes. Even assuming it is 1-2 months of trading volumes, the market can= =20 absorb. Hourglass spreads that 1 week of trading volume over a minimum of 8 months,= =20 possibly more. > Trying to manage the Bitcoin price via spending restrictions is a=20 terrible idea. While I generally agree with this sentence, I think P2PK coins are an=20 exceptional case. > In any case, the Bitcoin price routinely drops by upwards of 85%. It is= =20 not a security concern. Price volatility is not a security. Price volatility absolutely impacts security, and this would be an=20 unprecedented event. We also haven't seen an 85% price drop in a long time. On Saturday, May 3, 2025 at 5:55:28=E2=80=AFAM UTC-6 Francis Pouliot wrote: > > Concept NACK. > > 1.7 million Bitcoin represents possibly about 1 week of global trading=20 > volumes. Even assuming it is 1-2 months of trading volumes, the market ca= n=20 > absorb. > > Trying to manage the Bitcoin price via spending restrictions is a terribl= e=20 > idea. > > In any case, the Bitcoin price routinely drops by upwards of 85%. It is= =20 > not a security concern. Price volatility is not a security.=20 > On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 5:08:16=E2=80=AFPM UTC-6 Hunter Beast wrote= : > >> This is a proposal to mitigate against potential mass liquidation of P2P= K=20 >> funds. The specification is pretty simple, but the motivation and=20 >> justification for it is a bit longer. >> >> https://github.com/cryptoquick/bips/blob/hourglass/bip-hourglass.mediawi= ki >> >> Feedback welcome! >> > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= 4f35a82a-bedb-4d4d-9de2-2dbc340b18acn%40googlegroups.com. ------=_Part_151121_636361332.1746338411725 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Trading volume is a good perspective to view this through, actually. If an = attacker decides to consolidate immediately, they could do so within just a= couple hours and suppress the Bitcoin price for a long time.

&g= t;=C2=A01.7 million Bitcoin represents possibly about 1 week of global trad= ing volumes. Even assuming it is 1-2 months of trading volumes, the market = can absorb.

Hourglass spreads that 1 week of trading volume over= a minimum of 8 months, possibly more.

>=C2=A0Trying to manag= e the Bitcoin price via spending restrictions is a terrible idea.

While I generally agree with this sentence, I think P2PK coins are an exc= eptional case.

>=C2=A0In any case, the Bitcoin price routinel= y drops by upwards of 85%. It is not a security concern. Price volatility i= s not a security.

Price volatility absolutely impacts security, = and this would be an unprecedented event. We also haven't seen an 85% price= drop in a long time.

On Saturday, May 3, 2025 at 5:55:28=E2=80=AFAM UTC-= 6 Francis Pouliot wrote:

Concept NACK.

1.7 million Bitcoin represents possib= ly about 1 week of global trading volumes. Even assuming it is 1-2 months o= f trading volumes, the market can absorb.

Trying to manage the Bitco= in price via spending restrictions is a terrible idea.

In any case, = the Bitcoin price routinely drops by upwards of 85%. It is not a security c= oncern. Price volatility is not a security.
=
On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 5:08:1= 6=E2=80=AFPM UTC-6 Hunter Beast wrote:
This is a proposal to mitigate against potential mass liqu= idation of P2PK funds. The specification is pretty simple, but the motivati= on and justification for it is a bit longer.


Feedback welcome!

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