From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Vh36z-0000D6-PP for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:01:57 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.128.51 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.128.51; envelope-from=etotheipi@gmail.com; helo=mail-qe0-f51.google.com; Received: from mail-qe0-f51.google.com ([209.85.128.51]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1Vh36y-0007WF-Jb for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:01:57 +0000 Received: by mail-qe0-f51.google.com with SMTP id t7so1668204qeb.10 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:01:51 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.224.12.140 with SMTP id x12mr5201385qax.42.1384459311147; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:01:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.85] (c-76-111-96-126.hsd1.md.comcast.net. [76.111.96.126]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id x10sm2190486qas.5.2013.11.14.12.01.49 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:01:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <52852C2D.9020103@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:01:49 -0500 From: Alan Reiner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010407060805040602080405" X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: doubleclick.net] -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (etotheipi[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1Vh36y-0007WF-Jb Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:01:58 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010407060805040602080405 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I highly recommend that if we make any move towards this, that the software show verification in both/all units. For instance, there should be 3 input fields, one for "BTC", one for "mBTC" one for "uBTC". As the user enters a value in one of the fields, it would automatically update the other fields with the converted value as they type. This makes it really difficult to get it wrong... if you're typing "10" into the BTC field, thinking it's mBTC, you'll see 10,000 mBTC showing up in the other box as you type. Similarly, it should display all units on all verification windows. Users may also use it for sanity checking conversion between units. Personally, I'm of the opinion that this change is important in the long run: the current price makes Bitcoin *intimidating* to new users. But I'm also of the opinion that it's freakin' hard to change the base unit in such an established system. There is no easy way to do this that doesn't cause more heartache than it's worth. But it's possible if you make it idiot-proof enough, and roll it out in the least inconvenient way. -Alan On 11/14/2013 06:45 AM, Melvin Carvalho wrote: > Rationale > ======= > > Given the recent rise in value there seems to be anecdotal evidence > that 1 bitcoin being so high is putting off a lot of normal buyers, > because they feel that putting down $400+ and only getting "1 coin", > or having to buy in multiples of 1 whole coin, is too much.. only > after it being explained that they can buy fractional amounts to they > regain interest, apparently happening increasingly. > > > Straw Poll > ======== > > 6 months ago there was a straw poll on this > > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=220322.0 > > Roughly 2/3 of respondents favoured switching > > A further 20% said to switch after it hits 1000 > > Satoshi's comments: > ================ > > Eventually at most only 21 million coins for 6.8 billion people in the > world if it really gets huge. > > But don't worry, there are another 6 decimal places that aren't shown, > for a total of 8 decimal places internally. It shows 1.00 but > internally it's 1.00000000. If there's massive deflation in the > future, the software could show more decimal places. > > If it gets tiresome working with small numbers, we could change where > the display shows the decimal point. Same amount of money, just > different convention for where the ","'s and "."'s go. e.g. moving > the decimal place 3 places would mean if you had 1.00000 before, now > it shows it as 1,000.00. > > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=44.msg267#msg267 > > > Would now be a good time to start thinking about changing the default > display in the software. Perhaps initially it could be a dropdown > display option, then at some point mbtc becomes the default? > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > DreamFactory - Open Source REST & JSON Services for HTML5 & Native Apps > OAuth, Users, Roles, SQL, NoSQL, BLOB Storage and External API Access > Free app hosting. Or install the open source package on any LAMP server. > Sign up and see examples for AngularJS, jQuery, Sencha Touch and Native! > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63469471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development --------------010407060805040602080405 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I highly recommend that if we make any move towards this, that the software show verification in both/all units.

For instance, there should be 3 input fields, one for "BTC", one for "mBTC" one for "uBTC".  As the user enters a value in one of the fields, it would automatically update the other fields with the converted value as they type.  This makes it really difficult to get it wrong... if you're typing "10" into the BTC field, thinking it's mBTC, you'll see 10,000 mBTC showing up in the other box as you type.  Similarly, it should display all units on all verification windows.  Users may also use it for sanity checking conversion between units.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that this change is important in the long run:  the current price makes Bitcoin intimidating to new users.  But I'm also of the opinion that it's freakin' hard to change the base unit in such an established system.  There is no easy way to do this that doesn't cause more heartache than it's worth.  But it's possible if you make it idiot-proof enough, and roll it out in the least inconvenient way.

-Alan


On 11/14/2013 06:45 AM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
Rationale
=======

Given the recent rise in value there seems to be anecdotal evidence that 1 bitcoin being so high is putting off a lot of normal buyers, because they feel that putting down $400+ and only getting "1 coin", or having to buy in multiples of 1 whole coin, is too much.. only after it being explained that they can buy fractional amounts to they regain interest, apparently happening increasingly.


Straw Poll
========

6 months ago there was a straw poll on this

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=220322.0

Roughly 2/3 of respondents favoured switching

A further 20% said to switch after it hits 1000

Satoshi's comments:
================

Eventually at most only 21 million coins for 6.8 billion people in the world if it really gets huge.

But don't worry, there are another 6 decimal places that aren't shown, for a total of 8 decimal places internally.  It shows 1.00 but internally it's 1.00000000.  If there's massive deflation in the future, the software could show more decimal places.

If it gets tiresome working with small numbers, we could change where the display shows the decimal point.  Same amount of money, just different convention for where the ","'s and "."'s go.  e.g. moving the decimal place 3 places would mean if you had 1.00000 before, now it shows it as 1,000.00.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=44.msg267#msg267


Would now be a good time to start thinking about changing the default display in the software.  Perhaps initially it could be a dropdown display option, then at some point mbtc becomes the default?



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