From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1VhHsT-0000Up-Jw for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:47:57 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from 2508ds5-oebr.1.fullrate.dk ([90.184.5.129] helo=mail.ceptacle.com) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) id 1VhHsS-0006Et-53 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:47:57 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.ceptacle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FEE736FB942 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:47:48 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ceptacle.com Received: from mail.ceptacle.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server.ceptacle.private [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2yzHG8rYvVmi for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:47:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from MacGronager.local (cpe.xe-3-1-0-415.bynqe10.dk.customer.tdc.net [188.180.67.254]) by mail.ceptacle.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4300A36FB928 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:47:47 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <528609E2.2050107@ceptacle.com> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:47:46 +0100 From: Michael Gronager User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net References: <528367F5.9080303@ceptacle.com> <20131115103246.GB17034@savin> In-Reply-To: <20131115103246.GB17034@savin> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: doubleclick.net] 0.0 LOTS_OF_MONEY Huge... sums of money X-Headers-End: 1VhHsS-0006Et-53 Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Even simpler minimum fee calculation formula: f > bounty*fork_rate/average_blocksize X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:47:57 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 15/11/13, 11:32 , Peter Todd wrote: > alpha = (1/113)*600s/134kBytes = 39.62uS/byte = 24kB/second > > Which is atrocious... alpha = P_fork*t_block/S = 1/113*454000/134 = 29ms/kb or 272kbit pr second - if you assume this is a bandwidth then I agree it is strikingly small (ISDN like), but this is not the case, the size dependence of this number originates both from the limited network bandwidth and from the validation and verification time of the blocks as well as the latency in sending thee again. The connection between propagation time and fork rate cannot be denied, and the bandwidth can be deducted from that alone - see Decket et al. t_0 on a 10000km link is on the order of 40ms, and that is only counting the finite light speed in the fibers - if you ping the same distance you get roughly 1-200ms (due to latencies in network equipment). at a size of ~100kbyte t_0 hence becomes irrelevant. > This also indicates that pools haven't taken the simple step of peering > with each other using high-bandwidth nodes with restricted numbers of > peers agree > , which shows you how little attention they are paying to > optimizing profits. Right now mining pulls in $1.8 million/day, so > that's up to $16k wasted. yup, but the relevant comparison is not 16k vs 1.8m, but the pool operator earnings which are on the order of 1% of the 1.8m so it is 18k vs 16k - I wouldn't mind doubling my income... > > However, because miners don't orphan themselves, that $16k loss is born > disproportionately by smaller miners... which also means the 24kB/sec > bandwidth estimate is wrong, and the real number is even worse. Yes, agree > In > theory anyway, could just as easily be the case that larger pools have > screwed up relaying still such that p2pool's forwarding wins. Yeah, we should resurrect p2pool ;) > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > DreamFactory - Open Source REST & JSON Services for HTML5 & Native Apps > OAuth, Users, Roles, SQL, NoSQL, BLOB Storage and External API Access > Free app hosting. Or install the open source package on any LAMP server. > Sign up and see examples for AngularJS, jQuery, Sencha Touch and Native! > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63469471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJShgniAAoJEKpww0VFxdGRrwQIALKsOtBUaAaQTX9ikN+10mSE pE2dp2VnUvfUqpXf3MgJtAvg2RFqHjziyBMYmpMw5tLJPpeUthpNXm6Vm/Yg0DdL JXSESIrd4Pdb/xPk2Fh9OKHmR1SB/8VxtRL2Vj1HmzzBcBiCylcaBuKlRkizvGSF KrUm3EOFUfzgGYFUnqNceZ3CuQHWFAXbsitNqU6Vop8JOTgiSLhUrvb7r3W7Ewuy jM3H2KAk/PrdGXwna3sUfDXmmOxmPm1pBy6+OaBTHEv+ALkreD++XSUnLUUTky9N nZt2g7eMEFHIkVooj/HOGiwAvVwd7r86etiyUi8c2Pd46ff2OP5h1uiP/Qr28MA= =Bsv9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----