From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1VhI2Y-0002GA-Mw for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:58:22 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from 2508ds5-oebr.1.fullrate.dk ([90.184.5.129] helo=mail.ceptacle.com) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) id 1VhI2X-0007Ll-IZ for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:58:22 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.ceptacle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 144A336FBE5D for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:58:16 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ceptacle.com Received: from mail.ceptacle.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (server.ceptacle.private [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6S4ykLY74vjb for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:58:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from MacGronager.local (cpe.xe-3-1-0-415.bynqe10.dk.customer.tdc.net [188.180.67.254]) by mail.ceptacle.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5533136FBE45 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:58:15 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <52860C56.7000608@ceptacle.com> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:58:14 +0100 From: Michael Gronager User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net References: <528367F5.9080303@ceptacle.com> <20131115095413.GA17034@savin> <5285FBD9.2070106@ceptacle.com> <20131115111204.GF17034@savin> In-Reply-To: <20131115111204.GF17034@savin> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: enigmail.net] X-Headers-End: 1VhI2X-0007Ll-IZ Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Even simpler minimum fee calculation formula: f > bounty*fork_rate/average_blocksize X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 11:58:22 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >> >> Q = Total pool size (fraction of all mining power) q = My mining >> power (do.) e = fraction of block fee that pool reserves >> > > Unfortunately the math doesn't work that way. For any Q, a bigger > Q gives you a higher return. Remember that the way I setup those > equations in section 3.2 is such that I'm actually modeling two > pools, one with Q hashing power and one with (1-Q) hashing power. > Or maybe more accurately, it's irrelevant if the (1-Q) hashing > power is or isn't a unified pool. My Q and q are meant differently, I agree to your Q vs Q-1 argument, but the q is "me as a miner" participating in "a pool" Q. If I participate in a pool I pay the pool owner a fraction, e, but at the same time I become part of an economy of scale (well actually a math of scale...) and that can end up paying for the lost e. The question is what is the ratio q/Q where I should rather mine on my own ? This question is interesting as it will make bigger miners break away from pools into solo mining, but I also agree that from pure math the most advantageous scenario is the 100% mining rig. > The equations give an incentive to centralize all the way up to 1 > miner with 100% hashing power. > > Of course, if that one pool were p2pool, that might be ok! Ha, yes, and then the math for p2pool starts... a math where we have much more stales... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJShgxWAAoJEKpww0VFxdGRoiwH/3RGTH503PJ8UWuyKjrxscb4 dG3TyThZCDs12DvtC+2TPKnIkQFinGx9442tZU/O+qmwsGJsNVoEcnGmKEYz/vlI XzFF30ugslB4FKwHZYRqXELaKR4RvUtSzu6td8P3n+e6d0MZsuemMornpbXZkw3n CbMlYuiG4h3iUAwTaOTS26cFbZoo6eyogydDjnS7Ogi2Ur85Rydi/Lj24rj7UxYB +WUkYAv3bCqCzTkv1LxO7HwY1SICZDmoGRbuil5M7bJ+MftYt6Q6DVprGSVP0mOV 9eEVeMVY/WmMZCI/01ruXpzC3gxU60vOd/a3q9G2hd9Tn00HzugAllEXh7ZzzUs= =unP8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----