From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1WSBw1-0005U2-KM for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 24 Mar 2014 20:57:29 +0000 Received: from mail-pa0-f51.google.com ([209.85.220.51]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1WSBw0-000835-8A for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 24 Mar 2014 20:57:29 +0000 Received: by mail-pa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id kq14so5989256pab.38 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2014 13:57:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent :mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jH7yh8ao1Ye33I9V43Qs9wUiESPm1eaZ7+l5NpGvZgM=; b=h/B7tC0AOEih9TTYu/gGjCc2xK5I+booqRJBnqzuQKxbYvsMXPhwntg4pnazft6dqd c2os/TSPCvfZANIo1+3RuwWkmM70LGwJdvoxD1bdpl4wp2r8ane+ExE2c6gC9w3+11HF XJJwYgnmQ0Wf87Yo/TLi5XyNmawejhuu1SrFtrWSfcuiAt3/fAgsiNQyUkAvcvcuy76T nKkMYv7CKNDYcxMzvYUeizFI8O+yupJpDNBOQMq5INGEe3lbWIJoTXRDDPwHgXVuMccX XPO7xw9HmBNvFUUdksDY5zZE3rg8hBtbaxu0umnFU9mHhcDPy/GqwiLH3yDKxCstt89y lOOw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn3BascNeuL6frGT1UqQhFGiRGf8g4ZqoC48o6TABIN8dUprLKUmZdvg9B/iaVFG/5p2rOF X-Received: by 10.66.177.168 with SMTP id cr8mr11403330pac.128.1395694642260; Mon, 24 Mar 2014 13:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.127.187] (50-0-36-93.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net. [50.0.36.93]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id op3sm35258062pbc.40.2014.03.24.13.57.15 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 24 Mar 2014 13:57:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53309C2A.4040406@monetize.io> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 13:57:14 -0700 From: Mark Friedenbach Organization: Monetize.io Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Troy Benjegerdes References: <20140322084702.GA13436@savin> <20140322193435.GC6047@savin> <20140323231737.GM3180@nl.grid.coop> <532F740C.9010800@monetize.io> <20140324203403.GR3180@nl.grid.coop> In-Reply-To: <20140324203403.GR3180@nl.grid.coop> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. X-Headers-End: 1WSBw0-000835-8A Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 20:57:29 -0000 On 03/24/2014 01:34 PM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote: > I'm here because I want to sell corn for bitcoin, and I believe it will be > more profitable for me to do that with a bitcoin-blockchain-based system > in which I have the capability to audit the code that executes the trade. A discussion over such a system would be on-topic. Indeed I have made my own proposals for systems with that capability in the past: http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/31322676/ There's no reason to invoke alts however. There are ways where this can be done within the bitcoin ecosystem, using bitcoins: http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/32108143/ > I think that's fair, so long as we limit bitcoin-development discussion to > issues that are relevant to the owners of the hashrate and companies that > pay developer salaries. > > What I'm asking for is some honesty that Bitcoin is a centralized system > and to stop arguing technical points on the altar of distributed/decentralized > whatever. It's pretty clear if you want decentralized you should go with > altchains. Bitcoin is not a centralized system, and neither is its development. I don't even know how to respond to that. Bringing up altchains is a total red herring. This is *bitcoin*-development. Please don't make it have to become a moderated mailing list.