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From: Sergio Lerner <sergiolerner@certimix.com>
To: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>,
	 bitcoin-development <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Coinbase reallocation to discourage Finney attacks
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 12:13:40 -0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <53592A24.5000007@certimix.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CANEZrP0pJgjCzEZg19-Xnf20PD7FCRqF8=jQ_VBrznq=w_vQGQ@mail.gmail.com>

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On 23/04/2014 05:51 p.m., Mike Hearn wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 10:44 PM, Adam Ritter <aritter@gmail.com
> <mailto:aritter@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Isn't a faster blockchain for transactions (maybe as a sidechain)
>     solving the problem? If there would be a safe way for
>     0-confirmation transactions, the Bitcoin blockchain wouldn't even
>     be needed.
>
>
> The 10 minute average comes from a desire to balance wasted work due
> to natural chain splits with latency. With a very fast block interval
> you end up with lots of forks and things take longer to converge,
> also, it can make attacks easier because an attacker is building on
> his own blocks so he doesn't suffer propagation delays and the
> attendant splits.
>
> It's not clear you can just make a faster block chain. 10 minutes is
> somewhat arbitrary, it could be 5 minutes and the system would still
> work, but it probably can't be 5 seconds.
5 seconds block interval is possible. I've simulate it with great
success and I encourage anyone to repeat or check my simulations.

There are a very few protocol modifications that are required to allow 5
seconds block, and most of them have already been discussed in the forums.
For more information you can check my post:
http://bitslog.wordpress.com/2014/02/17/5-sec-block-interval/
Also NimbleCoin is a new alt-coin that uses 5-sec block intervals,
allows 100 tps and .... it's based on BitcoinJ (NimbleCoinJ now). So not
only it is possible, but it was coded by Mike itself.
Important note: the 5-sec block interval method probably requires a
block reward forever. It doesn't work well if there is no block reward
at all.

>
> Unfortunately for best physical-world usability you really need very
> fast payments. A few seconds is competitive with modern credit cards.
Another solution to achieve <5 secs block intervals is this:
http://bitslog.wordpress.com/2014/03/20/mincen-a-new-protocol-to-achieve-instant-payments/

So the problem with 0-confirmations is solely of Bitcoin and other
alt-coins, new alt-coins may achieve instant transactions and no not
have to rely on 0-confirmations.

Best regards,
 Sergio.


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  reply	other threads:[~2014-04-24 15:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 90+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-04-23  7:55 [Bitcoin-development] Coinbase reallocation to discourage Finney attacks Mike Hearn
2014-04-23  9:57 ` Andy Parkins
2014-04-23 11:07   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 11:39     ` Andy Parkins
2014-04-23 11:45       ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 13:21         ` Andy Parkins
2014-04-23 13:31           ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24  9:21             ` Andy Parkins
2014-04-23 12:43 ` Christophe Biocca
2014-04-23 12:51   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 14:52 ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-23 15:07   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 17:19     ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-23 17:47       ` Gavin Andresen
2014-04-23 17:49         ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-23 17:57           ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 18:04             ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-23 18:15               ` Peter Todd
2014-04-23 18:20                 ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-23 18:37                   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 18:49                     ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-23 19:01                       ` Drak
2014-04-23 18:58                     ` Tier Nolan
2014-04-23 15:04 ` Alex Mizrahi
2014-04-23 15:09   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 15:38     ` Alex Mizrahi
2014-04-23 16:04       ` Christophe Biocca
2014-04-23 16:19         ` Chris Pacia
2014-04-23 16:21         ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 16:33         ` Kevin
2014-04-24 11:22     ` Jorge Timón
2014-04-24 11:43       ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24 13:57         ` Jorge Timón
2014-04-24 14:28           ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24 15:37             ` Jorge Timón
2014-04-24 17:07               ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-25  4:31             ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-25 10:17               ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-25 13:19                 ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-25 15:28                   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-26 12:15                     ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-27  1:42                       ` Christophe Biocca
2014-04-27 12:53                         ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-27 14:31                           ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-27 23:10                             ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-28 21:41                           ` Adam Back
2014-04-29 14:13                             ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-29 14:21                               ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-29 14:26                                 ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-30 13:12                                   ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-30 13:55                                     ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-30 14:31                                       ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-29 19:29                               ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-30 13:00                               ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-30 17:06                                 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-04-30 17:13                                   ` Jameson Lopp
2014-04-30 14:08                               ` Gareth Williams
2014-04-23 15:28   ` Peter Todd
2014-04-23 15:34 ` Kevin
2014-04-23 15:41   ` Pieter Wuille
2014-04-23 15:55     ` Peter Todd
2014-04-23 18:57 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-23 19:19   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 19:47     ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-23 19:59       ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 20:24         ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-23 20:37           ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 20:44             ` Adam Ritter
2014-04-23 20:51               ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24 15:13                 ` Sergio Lerner [this message]
2014-04-24 15:34                   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-23 20:53               ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-23 21:23                 ` Tier Nolan
2014-04-23 21:39                   ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-23 22:26                     ` Tier Nolan
2014-04-24  0:55                   ` Tom Harding
     [not found]                 ` <CAKuKjyWDniyP503XSw8=tK9XQW-T58j+VD6ajXCxz=HihN93mQ@mail.gmail.com>
2014-04-24 14:52                   ` [Bitcoin-development] Fwd: " Adam Ritter
2014-04-23 20:41         ` [Bitcoin-development] " Daniel Krawisz
2014-04-23 22:06     ` Alex Mizrahi
2014-04-24  7:58       ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24  8:19         ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-24  8:39           ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24  9:25             ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-24  9:56               ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24 13:44                 ` Peter Todd
2014-04-24 14:09                   ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-24 14:47                     ` Christophe Biocca
2014-04-24 15:03                       ` Peter Todd
2014-04-24 16:05                         ` Christophe Biocca
2014-04-24 16:14                         ` Mike Hearn

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