From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1XiwUs-0006qY-H6 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 02:26:58 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from mail-pd0-f174.google.com ([209.85.192.174]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1XiwUr-0001vX-HF for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Tue, 28 Oct 2014 02:26:58 +0000 Received: by mail-pd0-f174.google.com with SMTP id p10so6804866pdj.33 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:26:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=QWbohUjIlniUlJHjfMF/DX3Gk9n0cR+rX3qpUbqzbo4=; b=PXS7XiGgxWuxsj74lvO63yFnPXOSlYMztb2WiGmArOff8jx1CHMjXLzJ5CEFCwiXoF q7YJRh49wL4EaFqYUHgaCwbQtfxsWFNZ7Kp+iADGN3jow9ydTsDWC6HVg4znmRddA+fE Atj5oYk0A/mGgTPFvcE07DpFxgg0FOQYi4KargEr+PGWoOr40RKRODqsRAOPNtY29MXy f7+luvBNwxjt6guNujzfUjjPYip/l/T2JoZ0CZK6MjZhWG7qVnsptRhUKJ5Ul8PITOLj 4vxDbJFtaTgXeVAgE6gtVfLDp6Hfgj4zpmD7QR8zFRL0CgKPUUxD7CS2ceT4dK+lt3K2 VDGA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkBZdqOOKU2Ukfy+JK2eISQsKzkq96h6CUUfRmV75JnUlkH3RADm3WoTv7VIKxzOYKIf/NK X-Received: by 10.68.93.228 with SMTP id cx4mr193358pbb.45.1414463211716; Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.89] (99-6-44-248.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [99.6.44.248]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id i10sm122472pdr.21.2014.10.27.19.26.49 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:26:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <544EFEE8.4000000@thinlink.com> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:26:48 -0700 From: Tom Harding User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net References: <544EA3D7.2050901@thinlink.com> <544EA85E.8010400@bluematt.me> In-Reply-To: <544EA85E.8010400@bluematt.me> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. X-Headers-End: 1XiwUr-0001vX-HF Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] DS Deprecation Window X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 02:26:58 -0000 Matt, You're right, thanks. Without double-spend relay, miner won't know that some txes conflict with anything. I'll add that first-double-spends are relayed per #4570. Miner has to be very careful including a double-spend in his block -- he hopes: - that based on his measured time offset from the first spend he received, at most a tiny fraction of the network will delay his block - that not too many nodes saw an earlier spend that he didn't see, which could increase that fraction - that most other nodes saw his tx. Any who didn't will only learn about it by receiving his block, and they will assign it the time when they receive the block. That's likely to be more than T (30 seconds) after an earlier spend, so they would delay the block. The best course of action is intended to be for miner to exclude fast (< 2 hours) double spends completely. On 10/27/2014 1:17 PM, Matt Corallo wrote: > miners are incentivized to go connect to everyone on the network and > look for double-spends > > On 10/27/14 19:58, Tom Harding wrote: >> https://github.com/dgenr8/out-there/blob/master/ds-dep-win.md