From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1YE1CX-0002H5-NF for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 19:44:29 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of riseup.net designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender) client-ip=198.252.153.129; envelope-from=odinn.cyberguerrilla@riseup.net; helo=mx1.riseup.net; Received: from mx1.riseup.net ([198.252.153.129]) by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.76) id 1YE1CU-0004Z7-Mf for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 19:44:29 +0000 Received: from plantcutter.riseup.net (plantcutter-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.121]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B744941939 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 19:44:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (Authenticated sender: odinn.cyberguerrilla) with ESMTPSA id 1778D20473 Message-ID: <54C001A3.8020301@riseup.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 19:44:35 +0000 From: odinn MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.5 at mx1 X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [198.252.153.129 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay lines X-Headers-End: 1YE1CU-0004Z7-Mf Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Why Bitcoin is and isn't like the Internet X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 19:44:29 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 3rd party / web wallets are no longer viable except as means to burn customers and divulge (or be forced to divulge) their data to governments and corporations. Rather than restate what I have already posted on this matter I'll leave it there. It's time also for those who are managing bitcoin.org to reconsider what's posted there (the criteria for what's posted there - at present the "web wallet" section should be excluded, that is to say, Removed! from bitcoin.org with the possible exception of CoinKite to remain, which has a reasonable argument for having made such privacy advances as to merit usage by people (and to remain at bitcoin.org) Additionally, I see no point in recommending any of the other wallets except Electrum, Mycelium, Core, and in the hardware side, the ones that appear (Trezor and HW1). Furthermore, I believe those of you who are working for Coinbase customer operations or Bitpay (I will not name names, you know who you are) should resign from your employment. I will bring this point up regularly. You can easily find employment elsewhere, your skills are in high demand. - -O Alon Muroch: > Bitcoin has a major crossroad ahead regarding a suitable platform > for the average non technical main stream user. Until now the > majority of the available solutions were at two extremes, or DIY > your security and privacy *OR* let a 3rd party service do it for > you. The DIY solution is obviously not scalable, but it seems that > 3rd party solutions are not scalable as well. If we compare for a > second a 3rd party services with traditional banks, it seems banks > have two major "advantages" over them. Entry costs for creating a > bank are HUGE so a priori very few people can actually create such > a service, second, their physical and IT security infrastructure > are heavily regulated which insures a minimum of security level to > the end user (and even so money is stolen frequently). Entry costs=20 > and regulation do not exist in the bitcoin space, meaning two > programers in their spare time can create a wallet/ platform and > the non technical end user cannot know if his money is safe, did > they hire the right security expert, did they invest enough in > protecting and backing up his keys, etc. >=20 > Many services tried to tackle those problems with multisig (2 of 2 > and 2 of 3) to create a syntactical 2 factor authentication/ > authorisation mechanism but in reality those solutions didn't > really increase security and their failure point is always a single > device. Coupling those said problems with the fact that bitcoin > transactions are irreversible and are a scarce commodity, trying to > insure them the way our money is insured by the government when we > deposit it in the bank becomes a huge problem. Premiums will be > very high and will only grow as the appetite of hackers to steal=20 > coins increase. >=20 > I personally believe we have the tools for creating a platform that > is both secure and private but most importantly it does it in a > decentralised way. Creating true 2 (or more) factor authentication/ > authorisation schemes can improve dramatically personal security to > a point where 3rd party wallet services will become a thing of the > past. Succeeding in that will mean the next billion non technical > bitcoin users will have a platform to use securely and a base line > for building cool services on top. >=20 > Alon Muroch bitcoinauthenticator.org >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- > >=20 New Year. New Location. New Benefits. New Data Center in Ashburn, VA. > GigeNET is offering a free month of service with a new server in > Ashburn. Choose from 2 high performing configs, both with 100TB of > bandwidth. Higher redundancy.Lower latency.Increased > capacity.Completely compliant. http://p.sf.net/sfu/gigenet >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ Bitcoin-development > mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net=20 > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >=20 - --=20 http://abis.io ~ "a protocol concept to enable decentralization and expansion of a giving economy, and a new social good" https://keybase.io/odinn -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJUwAGjAAoJEGxwq/inSG8CJoAIAMDR0h40IhFQNa8BW4AFeKUR 7tg84e752c7wY153GY/P7MOFL6w3E9h4tXzxdohTMMfF5Q6Ip6HaaifYmMpegFSS WEHK0a3C2F+4sQMmMBtWbfyPsG5sJYtldY5hboSbh/6vXJJLXLSd+Sz3WHYx1Qjs qn6sw5CA2Q0fborTxcsNZixUXD/OF5tTjDozp+KfnZ0imvBoKfhfJFlaNUXNon7U zdPfahOrRIM5o70pjo6VwoutKRXr49JIoi47r9Uc3ujckUbLA5CVBApj4FApayb5 sXk8Ks+p6IvBr6Q0ycxXOKmPwbSALC5pLa7Ncb1MFFBGzxKFsMjoRwOLTXHlLUE=3D =3DWgO4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----