From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1YLyHi-00018R-Tb for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 18:14:42 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from mail-pd0-f177.google.com ([209.85.192.177]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1YLyHh-0006UF-VT for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 18:14:42 +0000 Received: by pdno5 with SMTP id o5so13542887pdn.8 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 10:14:36 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=DmeG5VhENcYi9iBvw0MHFYJjmY3Fb3tk+NWXxiyAAVs=; b=fSzUDZU0yA7EfcyxTy1lVBb+HEKaop5IR0W2brGGfPqC1mDJtaK08tzn9/Uz1rlcvL +yTVumreHYgsaQnGzom5NIaLFSQrk3YYhgQCsYsmKfnoOcSmZw7dqmL0uVVyYId3mO+d i9cbvvwdXghJ5mGK1FKHXFGQHhR8/RPZcRn01uIIcBQMmlEg/yLI+x/Sw4HkKVhTshaT jMQ4rZf9HxJ63lNB1CE4YGjKNCB1MyUFrclIfKuJnfnuZPV04K6MHkKgKQOBo1jiCvrG wbwPxsRNQYU23xYRjjJ+TWdqpZAyK9Dx9npWWn21QNZ2/IKSpkfJxsmsC35EuA0rvIB+ dKIA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmN/WYsSLxwDhPSwq8B0d6/ZjdUzkzAjlQGqr1ymahglajBm+d1eQ+otZSCxFjbNO2bNHOh X-Received: by 10.70.124.163 with SMTP id mj3mr8525108pdb.110.1423764876152; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 10:14:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.100.1.239] ([204.58.254.99]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id j10sm4438081pdr.37.2015.02.12.10.14.34 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 12 Feb 2015 10:14:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54DCED6A.4030304@thinlink.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 10:14:02 -0800 From: Tom Harding User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Todd References: <20150212064719.GA6563@savin.petertodd.org> In-Reply-To: <20150212064719.GA6563@savin.petertodd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 0.6 RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB RBL: SORBS: sender is an abusable web server [204.58.254.99 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] X-Headers-End: 1YLyHh-0006UF-VT Cc: Bitcoin Development Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] replace-by-fee v0.10.0rc4 X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 18:14:43 -0000 On 2/11/2015 10:47 PM, Peter Todd wrote: > ... replace-by-fee ... Replace-by-fee creates the power to repudiate an entire tree of payments, and hands this power individually to the owner of each input to the top transaction. Presumably this is why the original replacement code at least required that all of the same inputs be spent, even if the original outputs got jilted. Replace-by-fee strengthens the existing *incentive discontinuity* at 1-conf, and shouts it from the rooftops. There is diffraction around hard edges. Expect more Finney attacks, even paid ones, if replace-by-fee becomes common. Regardless of how reliable 0-conf can ever be (much more reliable than today imho), discontinuities are very undesirable. There is no money in mining other people's double-spends. Miners of all sizes would welcome a fair way to reduce them to improve the quality of the currency, whether or not that way is DSDW. You mischaracterize DSDW as being in any way trust- or vote-based. It is based on statistics, which is bitcoin-esque to the core.